E-Man

Well if that's the case, although I realize you have no reason to believe me, my player models did not have that look at all. Since this entire incident happen so recently, I've asked the owner of the server where the kick occured to see if he could possibly help with PB screenshots of myself the day of the second kick. My bat sense tells me that I may be grasping at straws, but at this point it can't hurt to try. You know, after all is said and done, the bottom line is at least this whole mess serves as a learning experience for myself and others who might pass by and read it. I'd be more than thrilled if the ban was "won on appeal", but if not, I'd be fine with that as well. I'm sure you'll agree that we're both getting much too old to deal with this crap (Some of us more than others ;) ), especially when there are scumbags out there every day developing the next best cheat that can fly under PB's radar. Eric

Unfortunatly, I don't have the brain to create the pk3s in the first place. :) So that's a situation that is completely avoidable. ;) I have scanned every removable drive I own, and it's not looking good for finding the file. Do you (or anyone else for that matter) happen to have a screenshot example of this exploit in action? Just for my own personal sanity, I'd like to compare it to other self taken screen shots. Eric

No - That is not how I feel. I feel that if you want to make changes to the game, that enhance the interest and attract new players and server traffic, you should be able to, without worrying that one day the changes you have implemented cause you to be labeled a cheat. When you talk of removing smoke from nades, or removing fog completely from a map, then yes, we are in 100% agreement that things such as those should be considered cheats. Anything that allows a player to see a character model through walls, smoke, etc. is obviously a cheat. I also think that PB should be considering some of the scripts people run as cheats; The lean binds, crouch jump binds, etc. That's an entirely different subject completely, and would require a few more pages of posts to argue. The advantage of a silenced AK, or any weapon for that matter is the player has a much better ability to track players by sound, without worrying about the 10 bullet spamming teammates that make it impossible to hear if someone is sneaking up behind you. Granted, it's not a huge advantage, but as you (or someone) stated previous, it should be considered a cheat because not everyone has the file required. Although like I said, the file is gone and I can't prove it, the more we discuss this, the more I'm thinking that there has to be different versions of the 'GM' file out there. I never had 'glowing' players, or anthing that could be seem through fog, walls, etc. So either the file wasn't actually "applied" while I was playing, or my high initial gamma settings made it tough to see any change. A PB screen shot from the server I was kicked from would show that very clearly. Eric

No - As I said before, the second time I was kicked, I did a global search of my machine and deleted the file. I may have it on a removable drive used for backups, but the chances are pretty slim. You're advantage comment leads me to another point. I've seen what are called 'laser mods', that produce a laser beam from the barrel of the weapon when fired. I've often wondered it this might someday be considered a type of cheat as well. There are also sound mods that change the sounds of each weapon - In other words, make everyone's AK sounds like a silenced MP5. Wouldn't this also be considered an advantage if others do not have the same file? My point on the last two statements is where do you draw the line? I completely understand your (PBBANS) position on this entire subject, but at what point does an honest player, trying to inject some fun and interest into a fairly outdated game, become what others consider a cheat? Eric

Well I'll be damned - I thought from reading a few of your posts I knew who you were. Long time man; too long. You need to contact me via Yahoo sometime. I'd say I'd stop by your server sometime, but it looks like that's not going to happen. Yes, we do go way back, and you more than anyone that has ever been around me should know where I'm coming from on this. I mean Christ, the two of us spent the majority of our SOF2 career fighting against the very thing that I'm now appearantly "guilty" of. It sickens me to say the least. As I've said earlier, with the amount of public servers I've been to, it would be nearly impossible to remember or even realize which server it was, if that server even still exists. That might not have even been the case. It may have been included in a map pack at some point. Since I've deleted all instances of it, I couldn't even find the date it was created. The fact that you say the offense is pretty severe leads me more towards the thought that there are different versions of the same file floating out there. Again, with no way of proving/disproving this, it is not a valid point. It is becoming increasingly obvious that the opinions shared by this forums higher ranking members are pretty much unanimous and steadfast, so I see no point in waisting more bandwidth over something that has already been decided. Again, thank you all for taking the time to reply. Eric DeHosse [NMC] E-Man Co-Owner / Server SYSOP http://www.noblecomputing.com

The reason for auto-download, from what I've been told, is because the file is simply a player model skin. It enhances the brightness of a player model, nothing more. I know from my own experience that it doesn't do much, because I have noticed no difference whatsoever since the file has been removed from my system. If I have been misinformed on this, please let me know. Is it possible that there are different versions of this file, with the same name, that might perform different functions? While I didn't want this topic to turn into my appeal, there is one thing I do need to clear up. If you notice in the ban, two different paths are listed to the file in question. The first was base/mp. When I was notified of this via the first server kick, the file was deleted. The second kick lists a different path. This occurred simply because the scan found a backup folder of configs, client side mod files, and maps that also contained the file. I'll admit, that is my fault for not doing a global search to determine if the file was in other locations, but I can't see how that can be considered two offences. Whether or not the file was an auto-download is next to impossible to prove/disprove. With the volume of public servers that have come and gone, there is no way to determine exactly where it may have originated. That's not the point of my question. The point is, how is your average player to know that a weapon shader, player skin, or some other game mod that might have been auto-downloaded, included with a map pack, etc., will not some day be deemed illegal be PB? Shouldn't a tool be developed that would allow a player to scan his/her SOF2 install directory to ensure that nothing he possesses is a ban-able offense? Believe me, I'm not as much interested in having the ban lifted as I am in understanding how the system works, so I can prevent the members of my community from going through this same ordeal in the future. I will say this though; it is my opinion that banning for this type of file, without an evidentiary screenshot showing that the file was indeed in use, is simply wrong. It's as if PB is saying players are automatically guilty until proven....well, with no chance of proving innocence. The same scenario would be you are pulled over by the local police, they search your car and find a gun in the center console. There was a man shot and killed two days earlier. You're automatically guilty because you have a gun in your possession. No evidence required that you were actually the murderer. I appreciate the time both of you have taken to respond. Eric

OK - I'm probably going to get flamed to death on this one but here goes. Here's the link to the ban: Ban Details I was kicked from a server because of the g--------ls.pk3 file. (I'm probably one of the people Notorious is talking about in his earlier post. After doing a little research, it seems that the MD5 scan (forgive me if that isn't the correct term for it) considers this file a no-no. The problem is, there were a lot of public servers in the past that had this file as part on an auto-download scheme, which is probably how I and countless others ended up with it. (I know, auto-download is also frowned upon unless you trust the server, but hell, we were all new once and didn't know any better.) Also, servers running PB without an MD5 scan will pass right over this without even a hiccop. My question is, doesn't this mean that there could be a ton of players out there with this file somewhere in their SOF2 install directory, who don't even realize it until they are banned for it from by site like yours? How does one find out if other .pk3 files that were once acceptable auto-downloads are now considered ban risking offences? I'm agree there needs to be a way to deal with the 'less than honest' players that seek out files such as this and download them intentionally, but how do you differenciate between those and the novice that unknowingly downloads what is considered a "known cheat"? Shouldn't a ban for this type of file also require a screenshot showing that the file was actually in use, and not just resident on the players machine? Thanks for your time, and try not to hit too hard with the replies. I'm just a bit confused and trying to educate myself so I can pass what I learn along to the members of our community. Eric DeHosse [NMC] E-Man Co-Owner / Server SYSOP http://www.noblecomputing.com