Mayjay

What proof ? Go for it, I'm honestly interested. If you can prove CE was used in the multiplayer of BF4 I will shut up about it and admit I was wrong. And which statement of mine was incorrect ? There's no discussion possible if you just say "False". What part is false ? That AutoHotKey could be used to cheat ?

Either I'm crazy or there's a bug in the time stamps but the violation was took out by PBB on the 12 feb, an update was made the 24th quoting EB's removal and EB's page state the removal on the 21 march. So to me, unless you can correct me on this, PBB can choose when they want if they wish to remove a violation from the global ban list. I'm not discussing EB's policies, I'm discussing yours. You seem to have a double standard regarding this subject. You know EB will never tell anybody about anything, that's why you choose to revoke the violation 89246 without prior any statement from EB. You want proof but you don't accept them when they come from people who were caught, so yes unless you investigate this I don't see how a proof can be presented. What cause the difference in treatment ? The type of program incriminated ? For you macro programs deserve the benefit of the doubt but not CE? To me that's hypocritical. Macros can be used to gain advantage in multiplayer. There's no indication about CE being used in the multiplayer. What's the crime of CE, allowing people to cheat on their single player games ? That's a reason to global ban players ?

I can find at least one occasion where PBBans staff investigated about a false positive : http://www.pbbans.com/forums/viol-50074-bans-removed-cod2-t145852.html. And people investigated this violation and found out you can be ban just by having the progam on. And again on several occasions bans were lifted by Pbbans before any reaction from EB. You can't ban 500 people because 10 or 50 will abuse, that's not how justice works and apparently not how pbbans works (http://www.pbbans.com/forums/viol-89246-89296-and-89229-bans-removed-bf3-t156615.html). Macro programs can be used to cheat or gain an advantage but many use them for other reasons. The right call was to transform the ban into a kick. And I don't see why it could not be the same case here. The ones that will use CE in the intend of cheating (even if no proof of such case exists yet) will still be kicked and unable to connect. The innocents will know they have to get rid of it. Those cases are pretty similar. You're totally in you right to do so, but other streamers should have the occasion to choose if they want to prevent the access on their servers for that reason or not. Like in this case : http://www.pbbans.com/forums/viol-89246-89296-and-89229-bans-removed-bf3-t156615.html. That you want to force the choice on everybody is not right. And once a cheater, always a cheater doesn't apply here since you can use CE for many things but cheating like you can use macros for many things but cheating. But of course I still respect your opinion even if I disagree. You're in your right when you choose who you allow to play on your server. Heck you could even prevent me to join your server because I have a different opinion and I would find nothing to say about it.

Alleged cheat please. CE has many other uses but cheating in BF4 multiplayer doesn't seem like one, unless you can prove it of course.

Well first of all I didn't cheat so thank you very much, and I don't cheat either in other multiplayer or singleplayer games. Edit : feel free to verify http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/soldier/Maywiki/stats/295415530/pc/. That you don't understand why people want or enjoy cheating in their singleplayer games doesn't matter, they're free to do whatever they want as long as it doesn't interfere or disturb other player's enjoyment. So did AutoHotKey, yet the global ban issued by PBBans was lifted almost two weeks before EvenBalance made an announcement about it. And a macro program could allow you to auto spot which is considered as a cheat. But since many players have those macro progams and use them for many things it was just and fair to give them the benefit of the doubt and let PB kick them without adding a global ban in top of that. Again, that you understand or not why people use CE, that you find it morally right or wrong is not the point. Your "mission" is to promote clean and safe multiplayer environment in the games protected by PB, not being a judge of morality about what players do on their machines in the privacy of their homes.

Can it be used in BF4 though, that's the real question and the main point that should be discussed. You clearly do not have any issues with players using macros that can be used to have an unfair advantage in game (http://www.pbbans.com/forums/viol-89246-89296-and-89229-bans-removed-bf3-t156615.html). Yet here, the simple fact that people have CE installed for their singleplayer games bothers you. In both cases EB only gave kicks, but here because there's the word "cheat" in CE you choose to global ban. I have yet to see a proof that you can cheat in BF4 multiplayer with it. And don't tell me you need a declaration from EB since you didn't need one for the 89246 case. What happened to the "one innocent banned is too many" ?

I think the issue here might be that most of the people who received the ban ignore they're banned. Of course I might be wrong since I contacted only a small portion of the players banned for the same violation and you have the numbers of those who effectively appealed. But most of them ignored that fact simply because they could still play on the officials servers for example. For them it was either a BF4 bug or a punkbuster issue since they were able to play on pb protected servers without being kicked. I informed those players and told them they can appeal that decision to EB so that hopefully they can have a clearer picture of what's going on.

Okay so what should I do ? You still haven't told me how my brother is supposed to prove his innocence ?

So why PB doesn't give a perma ban for that violation but you do ?

What's the point of having a appeal function then ? Seems to me like it doesn't matter if you cheated or not on the game protected as long as you have a cheat for any other game you own. How am I suppose to prove the innocence of my brother if the simple possession of Cheat Engine makes him guilty ?

And I thought the purpose of PB was to ban people who cheat on multiplayer games they protect. Did any responsible person at ppbans tried to reproduce the ban via cheat engine ? I'm ready to risk my own account and reproduce it on demand, tape the all operation if it can help. It might be me but if you ban on the possibility of a hack that can happen but didn't, well you go way out of your purpose. Why not banning all windows users then ? By using it you can alter pretty much anything you want, including the game, if you apply the same logic then pretty much anybody could be subject of a ban.

I don't know NaiduR, and I don't want to sound stupid but does it really matter if his demonstration is valid ? If using CE on anything but BF4 while playing the game results in a ban well I think that's a serious issue. The full ban is unjustified in my opinion. Now you can argue that it's being stupid to have CE open and active while playing BF4 but I fail to see how it is a justification for a ban. Maybe some were using it to effectively hack, I don't know, but what about the others ? I think the reasonable solution here would have been to give a warning to the players, telling them that having CE running while playing the game triggers PB and thus it should be disabled or uninstalled prior to the launch of the game to avoid a ban.

If you remember it let me know. Or any other way to prove innocence ? So you might have cheated we don't know, but thanks for your 100 euros it was nice of you. Thank God our justice system doesn't work that way.

I told them there was cheat engine for a game on facebook and I know that just the fact of having that program triggers PB, but how to prove it wasn't used on BF ? I'll do that. Well how do you find that part in the event viewer ? I can't even find that on my computer. If you could explain me how to do it (here or on pm) that would be nice.

I understand but it feels pointless, EB says for us it's valid but the third-party ban list can choose to lift the ban, PBB says nope. And that's with no more evidence than PB detected something. So what's the point of having an appeal function ? I can't even play with my brother on my team server since we use pbbans.