PB a real dissapointment

[RedRobbo]

In this day and age, middle aged guys with really hectic lives, tough jobs, families to support with the odd redundancy and cancer thrown in, really look forward to a great time out stress relief of playing games such as COD4 (in my case, not downloading any hacks, cheats or dodgy software - playing completely by the book for good clean fun). Having purchased a 2nd hand disc via Amazon in feb 2009, I found I was banned on few servers. Found server I really liked (No Named Brothers) played for months then in Nov 2010 found I was banned - with no explanation other than by Admin. Admin themselves said it weasnt them. They did some digging and found a ban back in Dec 2008 for a PB Hack. They advised me to get a new disc which I promptly did (Nov 2010), but found the ban still stood as it had now attached itself to my IP address just like trojan virus!!!!! I appealed to PB recently, giving references to the purchase dates to the two disc I now own, being AFTER the ban date, where they have responded 'Apeal Denied' without the courtesy of justification nor explanation. I find this very dissapointing and unproffesional. I am looking at get Black Ops, and its unproffesional protocols and standards like this that may loose them the contract in future for the anti cheat software. They have clearly Policed badly my situation - a total innocent at the mercy of a previous cheater - they have not helped maintain the integrity in a second hand market of selling on your discs (imagine buying a brand new car then to be told that the person who buys it from you will never be allowed to drive it on public roads) - you would never buy that new car i.f resale sucks. Anyway, moving on - Admin, have told me that the only way to fix this is to change my IP? Is there another way - can I get hold of the MD of PB to make a complaint of their approach here. Did they loose the contract for Black Ops? (personally I wont be buying another game that uses PB unless I get a major appology) - Any questions or advice and see the great auto email response I was sent>>>This is an automated message and you will recieve no response should you reply to this e-mail.

 

After review of your ban, your appeal for the guid 9503ff6af5f26e1c171cf4d2ef3b9424 has been denied.

 

Your ban info can be found here: 9503ff6af5f26e1c171cf4d2ef3b9424

 

 

[RedRobbo]

Duplicate post was removed as original reposted in error

Edited November 24, 2010 by RedRobbo

[kraxus187]

1st...Bans are only done against GUIDs...not IP addresses. If they were done by IP address as well, a great many people with Dynamic IP's would find themselves banned just because they had the misfortune of having an IP address previously "owned" by a cheater.

 

2nd...EvenBalance rarely,if ever, give an explanation or overturn a ban. I only know of 1 to date that involved a now ex-clan mate of mine. (He made the mistake of running 2 firewalls which inadvertantly blobked the PB scans. They saw this as deliberate...which it wasn't and banned him. Needless to say it was eventually overturned).

 

3rd..after the farce/hackfest that is CoD4...Cod5 does indeed have PunkBuster.SO its up to you whether you want to deal with it.

 

4th...as for the second hand market,they don't and never will care about that. They don't make any money off of it...and thats the bottom line.

 

As for the ban itself..its not a global ban handed down by EvenBalance. The original ban was triggered by GGC and PBBans is enforcing it. So you can actually play the game online...just have to find a server that doesn't stream to either PBBans or GGC.

 

So best of luck with that apology. Let us know how it goes.

Edited November 24, 2010 by kraxus187

[RedRobbo]

Thanks for heads up and appreciate the comments - will let you know if ban lifted but I wont be holding my breath. By the way Spam was an accident. Also wasnt thinking of COD5 - more Black Ops - cheers

[kraxus187]

lol..np..I edited my orignal post accordingly

 

Oh thats right...5 was something else they never apologised for..World At War.

Edited November 24, 2010 by kraxus187

[HSMagnet]

valid bans are never lifted

 

no matter how many different people may use the GUID

 

many people are linked by IP to a ban because of dynamic IPs

 

anyone that cannot be assed to properly interpret the data is not worth bothering with

 

 

if you used the GUID after the ban and never had the original IP/alias you are ok

 

btw you are not due an apology, you used a GUID that was proven a cheat

 

*edit*

 

besides that, only the person originally caught cheating can appeal the ban. any other will be denied out of hand

Edited November 25, 2010 by HSMagnet

[RedRobbo]

Thanks for this. Where do you think I got the GUID from? I would be interested if you read all of what i wrote and understood what i wrote in my original words. The only error I can find is that I assumed it was tied into my IP (NNB ADmin direction) but now it seems its to the GUID - what ever that is. The only information I have added unique when loading both games was the product key that was on the paper work that came with both games. I have played countless games and never had a problem. PB choose to ban me and choose to deny the appeal - I have done everything in good faith, paid in good faith and downlaoded on the correct patches (to 1.7) from reputable sites (recommended). The appology required absolutely stands but even with one I am getting passed the point of no return with having anything to do with Games that include PB due to this hassle factor. I hope you have listened to what i have written here too.

 

 

[HSMagnet]

i "listened' and read

 

did you?

 

what is the GUID of the "new" copy you bought? you listed 9503ff6af5f26e1c171cf4d2ef3b9424 as the banned GUID and claim the 'new" one was also banned

 

you will always be linked to the banned GUID, because YOU USED IT. if you actually purchased a new legit copy , then it is not banned unless you have raised a new violation by cheating

 

can you please provise that GUID?

 

if you are "A Fluffy Bunny" you were last seen Nov 20, 2010 COD4 that IP has only been seen with the old banned GUID

 

again what is the "new" legit" one?

[RedRobbo]

I am an Advocate of PC games versus PS3, Xbox etc. What worries me is that when we now go into games shops in the highstreet - you see this tiny little shelf dedicated to PC games with the majority of the stores filled with The Others. Its experiences like this that put you off playing and paying for PC games. We (collectively) should be making the enjoyment of playing for the average Joe (not having a degree in PC's etc) to just plug and play to stay in competion with the game consoles. Make life difficult and the days will be numbered. Need help here - positive constructive comments ARE appreciated. Negative comments will only help fuel the innevitable...

 

posts out of sinc - hange on looking for GUID - I assume you mean the product key? Right?

[HSMagnet]

no product key never give out

 

go into a server and type /pb_plist in console

Edited November 25, 2010 by HSMagnet

[RedRobbo]

I have a CD key from the NEW game I purchased from Amazon on 4th November 2010 ending in ****-****-****-****-D2E5

[UTF_doctor who]

...now it seems its to the GUID - what ever that is. The only information I have added unique when loading both games was the product key that was on the paper work that came with both games. I have played countless games and never had a problem. PB choose to ban me and choose to deny the appeal - I have done everything in good faith, paid in good faith and downlaoded on the correct patches (to 1.7) from reputable sites (recommended). The appology required absolutely stands but even with one I am getting passed the point of no return with having anything to do with Games that include PB due to this hassle factor. I hope you have listened to what i have written here too.

Someone who owned that product key before you got caught hacking and is now banned. The GUID comes from the product key. Therefore the GUID/product key and ban will forever be linked. That's why you buy legit copies of the game. It doesn't matter if you bought it in good faith or patched it, what matters is that someone else out there has/had that product key and got caught cheating. Evenbalance doesn't need to apologize as their product worked perfectly here. It's not banning you, it's banning the GUID that came from that product key. GGC/PBBans is simply enforcing the ban on servers that choose to stream to them.

 

Think about it this way: If they unban the GUID, the person who had that product key (and still has it written down somewhere for sure) and did cheat would be free to keep cheating.

[HSMagnet]

the RTCW way .. adapt as neccessary for your individual game;

 

1. Load up RTCW multiplayer

2. Bring down the console (should be the tilde key - above tab)

3. Type \pb_myguid and hit return

4. Type \condump guid.txt and hit return

This will create a text file in your Return To Castle Wolfenstein/Main folder named guid.txt containing the text from the console.

[RedRobbo]

HSMAgnet - appreciate your help here - got the console up tried what you suggested but not getting the last info - getting tired now - will pick this up tomorrow - appreciate you are trying to help and sorry for getting off on wrong foot - will try again tomorrow. My principle of the appology is that agree no system is fool proof for the cheaters out there. The issue I have is that innocents as well as the guilty are punished (across the board) I have proved to PB upon my Amazon reciepts for two games (one 2nd hand and 1 brand new, with two different CD Keys were after the PB hack violation - I even have an email via Amazon appologising for selling me the game although they state they sell 2nd hand games and dont take responsibility for their original seller.) Surley there must be a way that when the game is passed on - inoccent 2nd hand buyers do not pay for other peoples cheating???? It so unfair - and surley now I have the game - the original cheater cant use it as the product key is tied to the disc I now have (which cant be physically copied) - er - just realised - you dont need the game in the PC to play? Its all wrong - so frustrating.... grrrrrrrrr

[fozzer]

Lets start at the beginning shall we :)

First of all a few basics.

All bans are issued on the players PBGUID

A PBGUID is a 32 digit hexadecimal hash of the game cd key.

Every PBGUID is unique (its like a digital fingerprint)

 

Lets travel back in time, to December 21, 2008

A player raised a cheat violation as a direct result of running PB software.

Unfortunately for him, the server was streaming to PBBans.

The players Punkbuster Global Unique Identifier (PBGUID) was 9503ff6af5f26e1c171cf4d2ef3b9424

Evenbalance just kick for 2 minutes for cheat violations, what we do here is transform the 2 minute kick into a perm ban.

 

So far so good.

The player who got detected did not bother appealing the ban, instead he put his game up for sale at amazon and bought something else to cheat on.

 

Some time later, along comes Rob and spots a bargain on amazon, COD4, dirt cheap.

He installs the game, is quite alarmed to see he is banned from several servers but decides to play on, he even finds a server he likes and has some great fun.

Unfortunately the server admins decide to stream via PBBans to help keep cheaters at bay, and BOOM, Rob gets banned.

 

He does some digging and finds out about the cheating history of the PBGUID associated to the cheapo game he purchased.

He thinks its not right because he was not the one who got caught cheating.

He decided to appeal and raise a troubleticket with evenbalance.

EB dig into their archives and deliver a verdict on wether the cheat violation was raised in error;

11/22/2010 04:37:39 - "Hendrik T"

Note #3: We do not find this violation to be triggered in error, and it will not be removed. It is at the discretion of the third-party ban list administrator to remove any ban given as a result of this violation.

 

That is the end of the time travel, we are now back to present day :)

Rob decides to post up on PBBans forums, in a section of the forums thats viewable to the general public and to google, expressing how disappointed he is with punkbuster.

 

We do not remove bans that are placed, when the original cheat violation is deemed valid by Evenbalance.

Every ban on our Master Ban Index comes along with proof of cheat use.

Bans are only issued on a players PBGUID, never by alias or IP.

We do not force admins to enforce our banlist, its their choice.

Our banlist is open for download to any concerned admin or other anti cheat sites, so you may find that your PBGUID is banned by servers that do not use PBBans services.

If we accepted your argument that it was not you so lift the ban, we would also be opening the door for the original cheater.

 

and finally, how much is COD4 these days 15 - 20 quid and it will come with a cd key all of your own, and more importantly a PBGUID all of your own.

To coin a phrase of your own .. you put yourself "at the mercy of a previous cheater" by going for a cheap option rather than buy a new game of your own.

Your beef is that you are still linked to the banned key, but you admit that as soon as you installed the game you were aware of a problem with a ban, yet you continued to play because you found a server that you liked.

If you had elected to stop playing, and go buy a new game of your own we would not be seeing you here, and you would not be linked to the ban.

or

You could have used the chargeback option and got your money back for a game that obviously had a ban attached to it that the seller failed to disclose when advertising it.

 

I suppose if No Named Brothers did not stream via PBBans we would not be seeing any complaints from you at all :scratchchin:

You must have been aware of what a PBGUID is because you used it when you opened an appeal with PBBans and a troubleticket with evenbalance :unsure:

You can still use the cd key that came with the cheapo game, just not on servers that stream via PBBans or GGC.

 

To find out what your COD4 PBGUID is, the easiest way is;

Join a PB enabled CoD4 server.

Open your console (by default the ` key)

Type /pb_myguid into the console window for a full 32-digit GUID

or /pb_plist for the last 8-digits of your GUID

[RedRobbo]

Fozzer, great response - thank you. Only one thing that you forgot to mention. After aknowleding that the second hand copy I purchased for over

[RedRobbo]

Can I have a prompt response please - when you look at all the facts its not good of how I have been treated here - especially after buying a BRAND NEW game and its worthless. I was thinking of getting COD Black Ops but if PB carries on like this I wont be buying....

[SuperTaz]

Please be patient. People will reply when they get time. Telling people to reply with only get you being ignored. And please do not double post.

[buttscratcher]

I was thinking of getting COD Black Ops but if PB carries on like this I wont be buying....

 

Black Ops is using VAC, not PB. Your current problem will not be at issue w/ BO

 

 

 

Butt

[HSMagnet]

did you ever get your 2nd GUID to post?

[fozzer]

Fozzer, great response - thank you. Only one thing that you forgot to mention. After aknowleding that the second hand copy I purchased for over £17 (proof from Amazon in February 2009) was floored, marred, scared, dirty, cheat ridden etc etc etc etc from another human being - and nothing to do with me, I purchased a BRAND NEW GAME of COD 4 (Nov 2010)to wipe the slate clean with everyone giving me the impression it would be OK. Funny thing is the BRAND NEW GAME was cheaper now than the 2nd hand game at only £15 incl delivery. My beef is that the anti cheat strategy of PB is a carpet bomb approach where you take out innocents as well as the guilty. I buy a new game also in good faith and I still get banned. If you still think this is OK - heres my warning to you. NEVER BUY anything 2nd Hand. A car, a house, a PC. With strategies similar Adopted to PB - you will pay for some one elses actions. Imagine suddenly getting arrested becuase the previosu person who had your car did something bad that meant you had to pay. Imagine having been issues a CCJ beacuse of someone else. Imagine having a criminal record because of someone elses actions. Why is it that in everyday life we would not stand for that and yet in the gaming world it is acceptable to affect others from the guilty persons actions???? What makes me laugh is that when it comes to PCs, the ADMIN people are actually very astute intelligent people. They have the ability to find a way to ban only those people who are the proven cheaters and yet do nothing. I end up paying still for someone elses actions. I am in the Automotive industry. If we affected 2nd hand car integrity value _ I would be out of a job immediately as new cars would depreciate too much. If the next response to this is to justify the system is fine as it stands then do nothing. Lets see what happens with PC game popularity Versus games consoles - I already see diminishing real estate of PC games versus game sconsoles in the shops - in fact some stores have already stopped selling PC games. P**s the customer off and we will go elsewhere - its never too late to continously evolve - thats is if you are prepared to listen to your customers...Of course this information could be falling on deaf ears - it would be nice to know that someone, somewhere has the balls to make life just that little bit fairer. ( I know there are otherwise we would only have version 1 without any later pathes...)

So what is the beef then ?

Has your new PBGUID been banned as well or are admins just taking you for a cheater because of the link to a banned PBGUID.

If your new PBGUID appears to be banned please share at least the last 8 digits of it so we can take a peek.

If admins can not differentiate the difference between what IP / alias raised the cheat violation and your IP alias history, we can say, right here and now, that it was not you who raised the original cheat violation, but the fact remains that the second hand game you purchased was used to cheat with before you bought it (probably the reason for the sale) and we will never lift a valid ban from our Master Ban Index, also we will never compromise the MPi integrity by altering any information on it.

We do not even have a facility for altering anything.

 

Re the diminishing PC games market;

Its a hell of a lot cheaper to make a game for consoles and then port it to pc (often badly), hence the diminishing pc customer base, but small as it is, it still generates a few million dollars for a relatively small outlay.

 

Also :)

Imagine having a criminal record because of someone elses actions.

 

Someone else steals and you buy the goods .... its called receiving, even if the original purchase was made in good faith, as soon as you were aware the goods were not kosher, that is the time to act ... not months later :P

 

Equate that to your experience, you say when you first installed the game you noticed you were banned off several servers.

So even though you were aware that something was dodgy you still pressed on regardless, when invoking your chargeback rights would have been the correct way forward :)

 

Last but not least, a direct quote from the COD4 manual that comes with every purchase of a new PC dvd-rom.

Taken directly from the software license agreement on page 11;

LICENSE CONDITIONS.

You shall not:

• Sell, rent, lease, license, distribute or otherwise transfer this Program, or any copies of this Program, without the

express prior written consent of Activision.

 

Theres more, but I'm sure you get the point :)

The full software license agreement can be found here;

click me

[RedRobbo]

I took off (unistalled) all files from the 2nd hand game with the ban on it - rebooted - checked all files were gone, then loaded new game with the new CD KEY (I checked I did not mix up the CD key with the old one which was quite easy as there is a difference in the quality between the old 2nd hand booklet to the new one I purchased. Also the New CD (no scrathes etc) immediately recognised the new CD key I had entered. Also there are slight differences between the Covers of the two discs - the 2nd hand old er copy is lighter - the new one recently purchased has same image but darkened and with an extra _includes THE VARIETY MAP PACK - 4 NEW MULTIPLAYER MAPS.... The new one was also patched to version 1.6. (I just had to downlaod 1.7 to play on the server I wanted. Sorry also for asking a for a prompt response but I do view myself as the customer here, that has a complaint and trying to address it to the right authorities. The 2nd hand game I originally purchased - I could quite easily accept - my mistake for being a muppet and not getting a new copy (ran the risk obviously of someone elses actions - I was nieve to think most are like me and dont cheat.) My BEEF is now that I have spent more money on a brand new copy - I am still being affected but I think its now acknowledged this is the issue? Also not sure where the double post is as the innitial double post was removed - cheers for anyone that can sort this out

[fozzer]

I took off (unistalled) all files from the 2nd hand game with the ban on it - rebooted - checked all files were gone, then loaded new game with the new CD KEY (I checked I did not mix up the CD key with the old one which was quite easy as there is a difference in the quality between the old 2nd hand booklet to the new one I purchased. Also the New CD (no scrathes etc) immediately recognised the new CD key I had entered. Also there are slight differences between the Covers of the two discs - the 2nd hand old er copy is lighter - the new one recently purchased has same image but darkened and with an extra _includes THE VARIETY MAP PACK - 4 NEW MULTIPLAYER MAPS.... The new one was also patched to version 1.6. (I just had to downlaod 1.7 to play on the server I wanted. Sorry also for asking a for a prompt response but I do view myself as the customer here, that has a complaint and trying to address it to the right authorities. The 2nd hand game I originally purchased - I could quite easily accept - my mistake for being a muppet and not getting a new copy (ran the risk obviously of someone elses actions - I was nieve to think most are like me and dont cheat.) My BEEF is now that I have spent more money on a brand new copy - I am still being affected but I think its now acknowledged this is the issue? Also not sure where the double post is as the innitial double post was removed - cheers for anyone that can sort this out

 

We have 2 pages of beating around the bush, and to be quite honest I am nowhere near finding out what your problem is :unsure:

Please provide the last 8 digits of your new PBGUID and we can assist you with whatever problem you might be experiencing.

[kraxus187]

RedRobbo....

 

Your getting close to the point where people will just not reply to your posts or ingnore you because now your coming across as a whiner.

 

We get it...you ought a 2nd hand copy of the game...got cheated on it and now can't use it.

But that is the fault of no-one hear.

Fozzer has attempted to help you...even posted step-by-step instructions so you can get and post info that will better help to find a solution for you, yet you choose to ignore it and keep crying

 

You stated that you view yourself as "a customer here". Well heres a headline for you...no one here, regardless of how entitiled you think you are to help/assistance due to a self concieved status...has any obligation or responsibility to help you in any way, shape or form.

The PBBans staff themselves are all unpaid volunteers....posts made by others in an attempt to help you are all voluntary in nature.

 

You, on the otherhand, seem to want to ingore that help and whine/cry/bitch because you didn't do adequate research into the pricing of games....if you'd looked around before going to Amazon and you'd found that newer,cheaper copy of the game first, would you be complaining so much ??

 

If you're not going to help by providing info so that your situation can be helped, then you'll end up suffering by yourself...because at some point n o one will want to help you.

 

 

[RedRobbo]

Last 8 digits removed - cheers

Edited November 27, 2010 by fozzer
thats not a pbguid