Knife Attack (meelee) bound to scroll wheel?

[=RAV=THATSMR2U]

Last night in our vent someone said that binding the knife to the mouse wheel is considered a cheat. When the game first came out I did have it set to the mouse wheel (click not roll) but for some reason I changed it and no have it bound to another key. just wanting to get the general opinion of everyone here or if there is a specific post that says it's a cheat, can someone point me in the right direction. :blink: :)

[foxsnipr]

Last night in our vent someone said that binding the knife to the mouse wheel is considered a cheat. When the game first came out I did have it set to the mouse wheel (click not roll) but for some reason I changed it and no have it bound to another key. just wanting to get the general opinion of everyone here or if there is a specific post that says it's a cheat, can someone point me in the right direction. :blink: :)

 

It is a hot debatable issue...it is a key command...here is what I posted over at PsB

 

 

While I detest cheaters, a bind IHMHO is not a cheat and should not be treated as such. It should be server side only. However if you don't want it in your server admins should at least warn people, otherwise it is does not promote the fair play concept.

 

There are programs that accelerate the functions of the mouse. Do we ban those that have them? Then the predominate OS users would be banned. Do we 'snoop' into each and every folder a player has to make sure they do not have Program A? Then the gaming community falls.

 

If the community as a whole declares that a player must have a specific vid card, mouse, etc. There are a lot of gamers out there that we are going to loose and future gamers that won't become interested. Lets face it not everyone can go out and buy the hottest and latest. Not all of us have cash to throw around, some parents don't either. Finally, there are people with limited abilities/disabilities that require certain functions within their game to play and enjoy the game as those that don't. (If you doubt this wait till you get older and your eyesight ain't quite up to what it was 15 years ago).

 

Just my thoughts.

Thanks

[326Tater]

If the community as a whole declares that a player must have a specific vid card, mouse, etc.

 

 

Agreed, it would be the same as having a boxed console game!

[MaydaX]

I have melee bound to my scroll up, it's doesn't make it go any faster just means a quicker reaction time for me to staby staby :)

 

The main issue now is binding attack to the wheel and for single shot weapons it make them fire a lot faster.

[Tabasco]

....The main issue now is binding attack to the wheel and for single shot weapons it make them fire a lot faster.

 

I wish you would write a cvar for that :)

[AcE]

I have melee bound to my scroll up, it's doesn't make it go any faster just means a quicker reaction time for me to staby staby :)

 

Same, but i still get shot :lol: :(

[Duality]

I, too set knife to mouse wheel (except down, as opposed to up for you MaydaX :P). The only problem I see is with mouse wheel +attack bindings and single shot weapons.

 

In fact my clan is due to have an admin meeting soon - and I intend to discuss whether we start kicking/local banning for it. The way I see it, it is an exploit.

 

It is indeed a hotly debated issue, and I think it will remain at the Admin's discretion as to whether local bans are handed out. I cannot really see any anti-cheat software kicking for binds - unless a custom CVAR check script was introduced. Even then I cannot see it being adopted by all admins - and I cannot see that everyone will agree on whether it is bad or not!

Edited March 1, 2008 by Duality

[=RAV=THATSMR2U]

Thanks for the comments. The way I see it, is that anytime you alter what the developer intended the firing rate to be, it an exploit/cheat. We (=RAV=) were on a server the other night and you can tell when people are using the mouse wheel to fire the G3 or M14. :blink: It would be nice if there was a way to detect these people and ban them. ;)

[Gnu_UKC-X]

I use the the mousewheel scroll for Melee too, also the right side button from grenades, left side for crouch.

 

I don't regard them a cheats.

 

I don't like the mousewheel for fire because it essentially changes the function of a single shot weapon to rapid fire, and an automatic weapon to single shot. I don't like it, but that doesn't mean I regard it as a cheat, I would just prefer that is wasn't possible to do. Other members of my clan use it sometimes, and I can't really tell them not to.

 

It's a server admin/clan choice of what they think is acceptable in the our servers, in this case majority rules and it's deemed acceptable.

 

It a shame because I just managed to get the software running correctly that will kick (or monitor) for this bind.

 

Look out for a piece of software called 'FUD Bind Kicker', you will be able to get it for sure if you are a SGA at PSB, as it written by one of the admins at PsB.

 

Here of a picture of a test kick done on myself :-

 

Edited March 3, 2008 by Gnu_UKC-X

[SemperXII]

Thought I would mention something since you all seem to be talking about observing fire rates and banning based on that.

 

http://www.techwarelabs.com/reviews/gaming/troopermouse/

 

^ I just ordered that mouse and it will be here tomorrow.

The particular part that is of interest to you all is the "Fire speed / click emulation" that is integrated with the mouse.

IE> push the button once, 4 clicks are emulated etc. Semifire to auto without binds costs only only as much as a mouse guys.

 

 

If I start getting kicked because of it Im going to be severely T'd off with some rather uninformed admins.

 

That is a piece of hardware, even beyond that, just a mouse. I know that the way it works is an internal issue with the hardware and not a cvar for the mouse wheel to scroll. So no cvar check should be picking it up and saying its some weird bound command right? But when you mention you "observed" users with a high rate of fire and assumed it is the mouse wheel, you might want to reconsider it. If some admin views this activity with me, decides to ban on it, isn't it their fault for not knowing what options are available in the hardware world for $25 mice?

Should I really get banned just because I have a mouse they do not? That seems rather ignorant right? Like saying, you get banned because you have better headphones, or you get banned because you have a speedpad or something and I don't etc. Brings to mind the biblical story of the mutli colored coat in fact.

 

 

Simply put, if an admin is that jealous and they want that faster fire rate, go to the store and pick up a new mouse, don't ban users based on your eyeballs. Put the cvar checks in of course, but to say one would know simply by viewing a user what they are doing / using is inaccurate.

 

 

Just figured I would put that up so you all know there are Hardware options, as simple as a mouse that allow for rapid fire of semi auto weapons. Start to ban for that, and you open a whole can of worms.

IE. Ill make sure to ban you for having 5.1 surround next time I see you etc because my stereo sound just does not cut it directionally speaking.

 

Note: the use of "you" is metaphorically, to no one in particular btw.

Edited March 4, 2008 by SemperXII

[Gnu_UKC-X]

Hey .......... I like being 'uninformed' :BigB:

[=RAV=THATSMR2U]

Thought I would mention something since you all seem to be talking about observing fire rates and banning based on that.

 

http://www.techwarelabs.com/reviews/gaming/troopermouse/

 

^ I just ordered that mouse and it will be here tomorrow.

The particular part that is of interest to you all is the "Fire speed / click emulation" that is integrated with the mouse.

IE> push the button once, 4 clicks are emulated etc. Semifire to auto without binds costs only only as much as a mouse guys.

 

 

If I start getting kicked because of it Im going to be severely T'd off with some rather uninformed admins.

 

That is a piece of hardware, even beyond that, just a mouse. I know that the way it works is an internal issue with the hardware and not a cvar for the mouse wheel to scroll. So no cvar check should be picking it up and saying its some weird bound command right? But when you mention you "observed" users with a high rate of fire and assumed it is the mouse wheel, you might want to reconsider it. If some admin views this activity with me, decides to ban on it, isn't it their fault for not knowing what options are available in the hardware world for $25 mice?

Should I really get banned just because I have a mouse they do not? That seems rather ignorant right? Like saying, you get banned because you have better headphones, or you get banned because you have a speedpad or something and I don't etc. Brings to mind the biblical story of the mutli colored coat in fact.

 

 

Simply put, if an admin is that jealous and they want that faster fire rate, go to the store and pick up a new mouse, don't ban users based on your eyeballs. Put the cvar checks in of course, but to say one would know simply by viewing a user what they are doing / using is inaccurate.

 

 

Just figured I would put that up so you all know there are Hardware options, as simple as a mouse that allow for rapid fire of semi auto weapons. Start to ban for that, and you open a whole can of worms.

IE. Ill make sure to ban you for having 5.1 surround next time I see you etc because my stereo sound just does not cut it directionally speaking.

 

Note: the use of "you" is metaphorically, to no one in particular btw.

 

If you change the rate of fire of a weapon, it an exploit/cheat. Thats my opinion and seams to be that of most of the people I talk to. The G3 and M14 for example are set to be single fire weapons only. If you modify that, its an exploit/cheat. If your video card came with an option that you could set up so you could see through objects, would that be OK, I doubt that anyone here would think so. Hope you enjoy your mouse, looks nice. but in my opinion, you should be kick/banned from a server if you alter the weapons firing rate. JMHO

[SemperXII]

In that regards, I hope you go around and ban people with Directional Surround Sound on some nice EAX cards or users with those neat emulation Headphones for direction. Mostly, since I don't have it you know? I must just be to dang lazy to get to the store etc so forth. Hard to get around these days you know?

 

Kinda crappy that people can just run into any simple store and go buy a card that will help them locate users by sound alone that might give them a edge over us poor stereo headphones guys. Total ripoff that they can gain that edge just by plopping down a few bucks right? Complete and utter disregard for us that cant, wont or simply dont know how to go spend money. It's simply to confusing these days.

 

Sure the game might support that sound card, the emulation software that came with the phones is legit and works, but hey, it also supports the use of a USB mouse to right? What the hecks the difference? Yup, complete rip. Ban the Surround Sound users. Free the people. Down with the almighty dollar being able to be used as one wishes, in a legitimate non scripting, non cheating way. Hardware is the enemy right folks? Boycott the stores, boycott the games that support it.

 

Stop making games that support a range of hardware, make everyone use their PC like a console so no one person can have a better cpu, or better vid card. Heck with a FPS advantage where you perform just a bit better then me, forget the ram advantage where you can run smoother and get better rates. Yep, put us all on the same hardware, put us all on the same box.

 

Thats what you want right? Completely even, no advantages at all right? No neat sound, no better fps. lock it all down.

Cause if thats not what you want, your a hypocrite.

 

However, as given, I am not a hypocrite. I don't mind that some users have better hardware then me and get a advantage because of it. Sound being just the most obvious example to use. It is simply how pc's work. If I really want a completely level playing field I can always fire up the console.

 

Certain mouse manufactures include software with their mice. This software also enables one to change the sensitive of the mouse. Enabling fast switching from a sniper type low sens mod to fast mod, is this also then "cheating" because they just did something the makers of the game did not include. What about those neat bind buttons on mice to? The ones where theres like 4 extra on a mouse. Now, I suppose since someone might bind one of those to a key with the mouse software that the game might not detect (button wise) that it is also then "cheating".

 

For example, lets look at one of the most bought laser gaming mice on the market atm. The logitech G9 w/software.

http://www.everythingusb.com/logitech_g9_l...ouse_13006.html

 

^ note specifically the screen for the config where it has that little button for "macro"

 

 

Now this software is considered common, if not overtly so. Any user using setpoint with a compatible mouse can utilize it. You do realize what one could do with the maco part I am sure as you already noted it. Now, is using that feature of your hardware then cheating to? If so, you might want to let Logitech know dang near every product they made the last few years ( ~4) is a "Cheat Utility" and go see if Evenbalance can start banning Setpoint software from running on users PCs. I am sure that the Millions upon Millions of users of that certain set of software would be exceptionally interested in learning they are "cheaters". Blind side em like heck it would. In fact, I tell you what, you go get EB on board to get rid of Setpoint, and Logitech to stop making neat new products that share a majority of the market sales and I will be fully, 100%, undeniably on board. Till that point, I think your opinion is flawed logic and the statement that the majority of others would feel that way as well then which is my main pic here as you of course, as I, have a right to their own. But flawed is flawed, and incorrect statements are simply that, proven mostly because if that was true, the above issue would already have been resolved correct?

 

In all seriousness, can you really justify banning anyone just because they have something you do not? That you are fully capable of going and getting? That is simply a better functioning version of what you have? That ads no extra scripting to the game and uses only hardware to accomplish? Cause really, thats just silly in any manner, totally unenforceable and completely unethical on your part, given it applies to the not so far fetched examples I put above.

 

As well, one is not technically upset with you, nor your opinion. One just wishes that if a debate is to be had, as it very well should considering the nature of the issue at hand, that the both sides are well represented before another may inadvertently invoke their "opinion" into rule, before considering the repercussions of that action.

 

 

Of course, is one is hypocritical, this argument, being made on the basis of ethical across the board treatment of all would not be applicable here. I just assume one wouldn't want to be.

Edited March 4, 2008 by SemperXII

[nOOb_CS]

Hello,

 

This issue of the high tech mice is common in most games. There is a simple solution, the coders of the game should hard code the fire rate and time it, problem solved.

 

As for people with high end kit having an advantage, well I don't, I still suck. What I do get though is a great picture from my 8800GTX on my 22" monitor (1680X1050), I also get great sound from my Creative Audigy2ZS and my Razer Barracuda headphones (5.1).

 

Steve

[wraithwingus]

Hello,

 

This issue of the high tech mice is common in most games. There is a simple solution, the coders of the game should hard code the fire rate and time it, problem solved.

 

As for people with high end kit having an advantage, well I don't, I still suck. What I do get though is a great picture from my 8800GTX on my 22" monitor (1680X1050), I also get great sound from my Creative Audigy2ZS and my Razer Barracuda headphones (5.1).

 

Steve

 

I think the end point here is this. It is up to each admin what he/she wants to enforce this as a cheat or not. On the servers I run the knife attack isnt considered a cheat if bound on the scroll but if you installed a script for burst fire it would be. As far as I am concered this topic has been around far to long for them (the game dev's), not to have noticed.

[Punchy]

To me the game, maps and weapons have been developed to create an overall balanced game, that's probably why which ever team you join you have the same choice of weapons/perks, if the weapons had been coded to accurately mirror their real life counterparts and, you could only choose the weapons/perks that relate to the team you join then it would be unbalanced in favour of Marines/SAS.

 

Take the .50 cal sniper rifle as one example, you can take a hit (if not hardcore) and still live and run for cover, if it reflected real life then even a small hit would take you out, in essence if you, by any means try to unbalance the intended gameplay other than the intended by the devs it's exploiting in my opinion.

 

You have to ask yourself why am i buying a mouse out of hundreds for sale that changes they way a weapon fires, is it to gain an advantage over a player who uses the weapon as intended by the devs.

 

If it were possible and there was a piece of hardware out there mouse or other, that increased the killing radius of a nade by three or four times or removed all recoil would you be saying, "ah well it's just hardware and not exploiting" I doubt it very much.

[slizzard.dow]

why ban somone for using something THAT the game devs Put in for the purpus of making gaming more comfey. to me its not a cheat or a glitch and i have tested it many times, a nother thing about that is No one can tell if you have your keys bound to what. so if anything its just a guess and not a good one at that. i think it is total nonsense. if people start banning for this they should start banning for people using the g3 because its way to over powerd....

[rub]

If you change the rate of fire of a weapon, it an exploit/cheat...

 

 

exactly how is the rate of fire changing? it is being utilized to its fullest, and you dont like it i think is what you mean to say. for the simple fact that your forgetting about the other SINGLE fire weapon, the shotty. no amount of scroll wheel changes its rate of fire nor anyother gun because its made to fire at a certain rate. how do you know that the developer didnt want the other guns you mentioned to be fired like that?

 

seems to me they would have gone as far as doing what they did for the shotty if they wanted the rate to be limited, they sure did make the shotty slow...and as some cops i know, they can shoot their tactical shotty to where the first shell doesnt hit the floor yet till the last shell ejects and thats like 8 shots!!! perty fing fast. and its a pump.

 

if you still thinks its exploits/cheats. do an easy search on google for some old man shooting a pistol for record times at targets, its an easy enough search. heres some

 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=s3fgduPdH_Y&feature=related

 

add those numbers up and thats pretty close to your exploit/cheat shooting a single shot like an auto problem, even with a revolver

 

 

CHECK OUT THIS SHOTTY WORK

 

 

 

dont get single fire weapon and SEMI AUTOMATIC mixed up...please old people who cant play FPS to well, stop trying to put your influence on it, your just dragging the skill level down, thanks! the wheel scroll will actually help you

Edited March 8, 2008 by rub

[Mazellan]

Changing the rate of fire by scripting I think should be considered a exploit/cheat, with the wheel mouse I do think that it should be dealt with by Infinity Ward in a patch so that only weapon change can be used with the scroll up or down....

[MILAR]

I also bind my melee to the down position of the scroll wheel it is nothing more than a confort position and no way does it give any advantage.

 

As most have stated that the issue is with the rate of fire exploit. Now if in order to limit that exploit and do away with the scroll bind so be it. I think that would have to be a community descision. I for one would uphold it and move it to another key.

 

If admins are really banning for that, Man I thought we were hard core.

Edited March 18, 2008 by MILAR

[M0KAS]

I have had the Trooper mouse for a long time, yes you can speed up the rate of fire, on single shot weapons, but if you pick up an auto weapon the first few shots are like single shot, it slows the first shots down before going into auto mode.

 

 

Ive had many arguments over the scroll wheel fire, and I left AON for that reason, as some on their are acting as though scroll wheel fire is the same as using bots or downloaded scripts, and IMHO, if its a normal keybind that is inbuilt in the game why ban for it, everybody has the ability to bind whatever action to whatever key they desire. What will be next, baning users of G-15 keyboards as they can have ammunition counts in game, or because they have up to 54 programmable keys to use, and yes i have a G15.

[fozzer]

No one will be put on the MBI for binding a key to a game feature.

If an issue is raised i.e. rof for a particular weapon(s) it should be addressed by the game devs in a patch.

 

Its that simple for us.

[Agent-86]

It's hard to call the middle mouse bind a glitch/exploit.. Simple fact that it can be set up so easy in the game options with 1 click of the mouse button, made possible by the game developers.

 

I actually set my primary fire to my middle mouse wheel without even realizing it. Late night going into the options and clicking on the wrong thing, taken about a week for me to notice I had it set. I don't use it myself, feels awkward after many years of using left mouse button to shoot.. But each his own..

 

I'm guessing the only time it becomes an issue is if someone gets out gunned by someone holding a pistol and need to blame something..

Edited March 20, 2008 by .Bacchus.

[R1- FinePoints]

My personal opinion I don't mind if people bind there melee to there scroll wheel. People always did it With all of the COD games. Just something you will have to deal with. There is nothing wrong with it. Your only assigning things that the game allows you to.

[hugin]

My personal opinion I don't mind if people bind there melee to there scroll wheel. People always did it With all of the COD games. Just something you will have to deal with. There is nothing wrong with it. Your only assigning things that the game allows you to.

 

 

Exactly, and if the scroll shooting is that of a problem you should all go to the IW forums and make those statements over there there. PBBans cant do jack shit about them :)

 

PS: Personally I don't like those who binds single shot weapons to scroll, a cheap way to play IMO. But hey? Who cares? /disconnect works wonders for me in such manner, or a fast kick if its on my own server and they don't obey a non scrolling server.