CoDLeague no stream to PBBans rule

[MaydaX]

-=1stEuid=- are back on line but we have to pull one server due to codleague specifications thay only allow us to stream to punksbusted in matches and it's too much ahssles to keep switching cfg's

 

does codleague say you can not stream to us? because you can stream to both :)

 

EDIT:

Cog:

CoD League match servers need to be streaming to PsB, not PBBans. Please turn off PBBans streaming on any server for CoD League matches.

http://www.codleague.com/index.php?name=Fo...topic&t=604

 

Sounds like a league that wants to help hackers keep playing. We don't require people to run our scripts or run our ban lists. Our Hub has options to not send bans etc so it would only be adding player info and bans to our database for other admins to use.

 

EDIT:

Moved to a new topic

Edited February 4, 2008 by MaydaX

[G0ggy]

does codleague say you can not stream to us? because you can stream to both :)

 

EDIT:

 

 

http://www.codleague.com/index.php?name=Fo...topic&t=604

 

Sounds like a league that wants to help hackers keep playing. We don't require people to run our scripts or run our ban lists. Our Hub has options to not send bans etc so it would only be adding player info and bans to our database for other admins to use.

What a rediculous statement and goes against Fozzer's post on our league forums, you're not so much bothered that we pursue cheats, you're only bothered that we don't pursue them with you. We require streaming to PsB, so in a back handed way you're saying that PsB don't perform a similar role to yourselves?

 

I dont know why any decent league would actively discourage dual streaming.

PBBans uses a totally different streaming initiative than whats used elsewhere and will quite happily run alongside the standard method of streaming as used by psb with no problems what so ever.

 

I would ask what the reasons are for telling clans to disable streaming to PBBans on the codleague forum, but I have to wait for someone to activate my newly registered account at their end :angry:

In the meantime I would suggest clans that are fervently anti cheat, vote with their feet and find a more reputable league for competitive gameplay or try to elicit an explanation of just why they are saying disable PBBans streaming.

We require streaming to PsB as we know their system, know their violations and checks, nothing against yourselves, it takes enough personal time as it is running a league. We resolutely do not tell people not to stream to you, we ask them to turn off streaming to PBBans during matches. We have to drawn the line somewhere and cannot investigate every violation raised.

 

Try posting without 'weasel words' in future, we have not attacked PBB once.

[MaydaX]

We require streaming to PsB as we know their system, know their violations and checks, nothing against yourselves, it takes enough personal time as it is running a league. We resolutely do not tell people not to stream to you, we ask them to turn off streaming to PBBans during matches.

That's our point, why require streaming to be turned off anytime? The hub has the option to run as a black box of sorts where nothing is sent to the server. You could even make a rule to disable our checks and clear our banlist during matches. It's your league and therefore your rules.

 

To me telling teams to turn off streaming to PBBans at any time is not helping the community but hurting it. If a player gets banned during a match you are denying the other admins here at PBBans the information to keep the banned player of their servers too. Also if they get a cheat related PBSS during a match it can not be submited without streamed logs. That is why I made my original comments.

 

This is all a community based system and sharing information is the key. Without streamed logs no AC site would be nearly as effective. We don't require admins run our ban list nor use our checks. They are all completely optional. We are not asking that you tell teams to stream to us but the teams that do should have the choice and not be told they are not allowed.

[G0ggy]

It comes down to a question of trust and expertise. The PB team at CL have used PsB for almost 3 years, if a ban was picked up PBB during a game we have no knowledge of the veracity of that ban or the system PBB uses.

 

Furthermore, we have to draw a line somewhere, saying to people you can if you want to or not, does not keep a standard level of play. Using one AC provider we can monitor ban lists, bans etc... we do not want to go down the road of bringing every AC system onboard, and to be fair to all players if one chooses to stream to PBB then all should be, we have neither the time nor the manpower to achieve this aim, and personally I wouldn't want to.

 

This is not written in stone and in the future it may change.

[MaydaX]

It comes down to a question of trust and expertise. The PB team at CL have used PsB for almost 3 years, if a ban was picked up PBB during a game we have no knowledge of the veracity of that ban or the system PBB uses.

 

Furthermore, we have to draw a line somewhere, saying to people you can if you want to or not, does not keep a standard level of play. Using one AC provider we can monitor ban lists, bans etc... we do not want to go down the road of bringing every AC system onboard, and to be fair to all players if one chooses to stream to PBB then all should be, we have neither the time nor the manpower to achieve this aim, and personally I wouldn't want to.

 

This is not written in stone and in the future it may change.

No one is asking you to do anything. You wouldn't even know the server was dual streaming plus all info is still sent to your prefered AC site. I just don't understand why you want to keep other AC sites in the dark in regards to streamed data during matches.

 

Also we are not the only ones that offer dual streaming, AON and GCC also provide this so are they blacklisted from being streamed to as well during matches?

 

It's your league and you do as you wish but what image does your league promote when you tell people not to stream to anyone but psb during matches. I hope that you revise the rule cause hackers are getting away with too much now as it is.

[-mRx-]

I dont see any logic in what you say..its been stated before that pbbans streaming does not interfere with the standard way of streaming in any way.

The team/clan/group/server provider useing over services do trust us and our violations and have made the choise to

stream to us and now you tell them they can not do that cause your admins have never streamed a server to pbbans,

so you set a rule that pbbans can not be used even when you have not tried it your self? No one from codleague have never even asked or been interested in how pbbans streaming works. For all we know mabye pbbans streaming is a benefit to your league how can you know if you have not tried it? :) Its not like we are the bad guys here we try our best to make a difference in the ac world and we do this for you all so you should have a more secure server to play on..Isnt that what your after to?

[RodeoBob]

It comes down to a question of trust and expertise. The PB team at CL have used PsB for almost 3 years, if a ban was picked up PBB during a game we have no knowledge of the veracity of that ban or the system PBB uses.

 

Furthermore, we have to draw a line somewhere, saying to people you can if you want to or not, does not keep a standard level of play. Using one AC provider we can monitor ban lists, bans etc... we do not want to go down the road of bringing every AC system onboard, and to be fair to all players if one chooses to stream to PBB then all should be, we have neither the time nor the manpower to achieve this aim, and personally I wouldn't want to.

 

This is not written in stone and in the future it may change.

Trust and expertise......you are new to these forums and do not know us our what PBBans and the community here has to offer. How can you say this? There is no better way to get to know us than join and learn ;)

 

Drawing the line in the sand and choosing a single organization, when multiple can only benefit the server admin and the leagues.....that isn't the best plan against cheaters. Why not look at TGL....who offers dual streaming to both PBBans and PsB? All of the streaming options here at PBBans can be modified to suit the client. This means that servers can stream to PBBans with the full checks enabled, partial checks enabled, or all checks disabled. No matter which way they choose to setup their servers....the important thing that benefits the rest of the streaming community is the logs that server sends to PBBans. Any valid bannable PunkBuster violations would get added to our MBI....and those players will have a very hard time playing now that both PBBans and PsB has them banned from thousands of servers.

 

Can you see where I am going with this?

 

Also, why not ask the CoD community here at PBBans what they think about this?

[G0ggy]

I've replied to Fozzer's post on the CL forums, I don't have time to keep ducking back and forth to give our reasons for the decision, but there is a reason on our forums.

[fozzer]

Here is the reply that was posted for anyone who is interested.

 

It's more to do with your repository scans than which method to choose. You're right in a way, we don't know PBB and therefore cannot comment on your checks nor your system.

 

If I give an example as to why we reached this decision. Clan 1 streams to PsB, clan 2 streams to PsB and PBB. During a game Clan 1 has a player kicked for a violation which is raised and subsequently banned by PBB. The player will be banned off clan 2's server, and all those streaming to PBB, but not clan 1's. Furthermore, we will have no knowledge of those checks that raised the violation, whereas PsB's we do.

and my response (which will be my last on the codleague forum)

 

Your right about one thing, flitting between here and PBBans forums is a pain in the arse.

I will keep everything on the PBBans forums now.

 

clan1 streams to psb only

clan2 stream to psb and pbb

clan1 is using psb configs as per your league rules

player is kicked for a banable cvar violation on clan1's server

etc etc

 

Did you spot the difference ?

I see psb has woken up to the fact that cheats are run outside of the game directory and the features toggled on and off via cvar.

There are 500+ cvar related bans that are on the psb cod4 banlist

 

All the above is a moot point anyways because the pbbans cvar/md5 checks can be disabled in a few seconds via the admin team account panel

Have fun :)

[fozzer]

Then much of this discussion is pointless if people can turn off "features" as and when they require.

 

Yes PsB has taken the steps to ban people for CVAR's, but it was a difficult choice and one which your system and ours hit loggerheads on, on many occasions, I agree in banning the cheats, but sadly you ban a few idiots along the way.

definitely my last post on codleague :P

 

response;

Definitely my last post on here.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

 

The Hub features being turned off were purely a workaround to the rules/policies employed by this one league.

 

You could not be more wrong in your assumptions on Hub streaming and PBBans, so I guess that leaves any dual streaming participating clans on codleague with a decision to make.

Do they disable pbbans streaming for match play.

or find a more community minded, anti cheat friendly league to play in.

 

If that last line offends, its purely an observation on what this whole discussion looks like from outside the box

[fozzer]

and lets not forget folks, there are more community minded COD options out there;

 

Total Gaming League

EDOM

 

to name but 2 :P

[MaydaX]

Hell even the major leagues allow streaming to PBBans such as CAL and TWL.

 

Some people really need to read the Hub flags section:

 

http://www.pbbans.com/information.php?page=hubguide#hubflags

 

One of the biggest advantages to multi-streaming is should either site go down the other will still be there to catch the cheats.

[5chaap2k]

I Think all the points have been made now..

 

It's up to CoDleague to decide how they want to profile themselves within the AC Community..

[bartman]

I for one would not even considering signing up for that league , as i have seen soneone cheating on our servers and they were auto banned here at pbbans , but yet that same person was clean at PSB ,, even though are server was streaming to both pbbans and psb when the player got auto kicked/banned by the hub.

yet said player would still be able to play in that league ^^.

not good at all.

[RoadWarrior]

PBBans has been the most effective in my time of streaming, and that comes from being here long before being asked to be staff, as well as through several different games. I've streamed to PsB in the past, but for reasons of my own, left them behind.

 

Any league that would limit it's venues for keeping their league clean and free of cheaters is playing the game with eyes wide shut.

 

It's kind of like saying that filling the second tank of gas on your car won't help you go further, should the vehicle have such an option. Apparently the first tank will go as far as with both filled? You're only fooling yourselves.

 

Multi-streaming just closes the doors further on potential cheats running on your servers, and I encourage it. Being limited to only one? That's pretty much like saying you can walk into a buffet, and only eat the salad.

[Badlizzard]

what really sucks is that psb is about 2 weeks behind in catching up to the streamed logs, so cheats caught 2 weeks ago are still out there playing because they are behind. The screenshot review forums can also take forever on obvious cheats, and they are not put on the MBL for a week or sometimes more.

 

The pbbans live hub and the way in which the SS are reviewed quickly and decisions made are an asset to this site. I have argued in the past here that some SS review would be a good thing, but when not enough staff are on site to clean things up as seems to be the case on psb it's the server admins who have to live with the cheats playing on.

 

ps. They never were that slow before, when they got hit with the ddos they never seemed to recover. I still like both sites, the benefit of both ban lists is without question an asset to the community.

[Bulgy]

what really sucks is that psb is about 2 weeks behind in catching up to the streamed logs, so cheats caught 2 weeks ago are still out there playing because they are behind. The screenshot review forums can also take forever on obvious cheats, and they are not put on the MBL for a week or sometimes more.

 

The pbbans live hub and the way in which the SS are reviewed quickly and decisions made are an asset to this site. I have argued in the past here that some SS review would be a good thing, but when not enough staff are on site to clean things up as seems to be the case on psb it's the server admins who have to live with the cheats playing on.

 

ps. They never were that slow before, when they got hit with the ddos they never seemed to recover. I still like both sites, the benefit of both ban lists is without question an asset to the community.

I think before you post something like this about PsB you should get your facts right. Maybe you should post up on the PsB forum and ask them how far behind PsB are. and not post up a reply which is just BS.

[MILAR]

We went through the same thing with TWL in RVS. We had our own private checks and we were forbidden to use them in a match. Well after some time and we opened up communication with them they made our configs standard for thier matches. Im sure this is a compromise. You guys would just have to work out the details.

[fozzer]

Finding out that the pb admin for this league is a psb global forum moderator was when everything that had transpired beforehand all fell into place.

Not worth pursuing any sort of compromise when the blinkers are firmly on.

With that in mind thread closed.