Knives* Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 It is convenient that it is available to everyone, however... - For the short-term, it helps out all server admins because they can keep their ban list somewhat up to date. It is something that must be manually done by them, and therefore is a proactive approach. It does not help out the Streaming Admins here, however. - For the long-run, I think that if people want to see it, they should become a Streaming Admin here like everyone else, which will help us all out by increasing the MBi banlist, just as all Streaming Admins presently do. No freeloaders means more cheaters will be actively detected and banned thanks to the extra Streaming Admins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcinc0gnito Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I personally don't see the harm in the MBI being open.. I know of 'other' providers that backlog there Public Banlist for a Month.. as a Player and server admin I like the oppurtunity to download the Banlist and review it as I please (love doing a quick Name search within it) as for Game Admins who aren't streaming and using the banlist... well all they are doing is causing more "administration" work for themselfs... as it's simply easier to sign up and stream via PBHub and would be considered Less stressful on the server i.e. loading a banlist with 2000+ bans can cause some issues.. easier for Live Banning etc. Also on a sidenote... "No freeloaders" Why would you want to FORCE someone into streaming just for a Simple service... By them Downloading the Banlist they themselfs have Helped out the community by keeping rejects off their server. Not as well as them streaming via PBHub but whatever :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everson Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 It's always best for server admins to use the 'Enforce Bans' flag within their AccCP on each server. Really the downloadable ban lists are something which should be occasionally downloaded for use in the rare event of the hub ever going down - ensures old bans aren't enforced, etc, etc. We have discussed the removal of public banlists or the dating of them to only have bans 30 days+ within, not only to encourage streaming but also to avoid incidents where outdated banlists are being enforced. Nothing's changed there for the moment and I don't believe there are immediate plans to either. If you like public ban lists does sort of encourage streaming because it shows part of what we have to offer, however, promotion is also an aspect to be seriously considered so people know what the benefits of streaming with PBBans are: live banning, MCi configs, etc, etc In addition to that the banlists are handy for those to use who don't meet our streaming requirements but are able to, and well if cheaters want to enforce our bans on their servers too then they're more than welcome to. The biggest thing that'll bring in more streamers to PBBans is effective anti-cheat within the gaming community, good communication and promotion while banlists and their availability is a factor... it's part of a huge picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knives* Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 Also on a sidenote... "No freeloaders" Why would you want to FORCE someone into streaming just for a Simple service. I've already explained your question in my post above. By them Downloading the Banlist they themselfs have Helped out the community by keeping rejects off their server. Wrong. They would not be helping out the community at all. They would just be helping themselves. To help out the community, they would need to have a server streaming. Only then would they be helping out the community. On a side note, I think that people should still be able to do GUID checks to find out if someone has been banned. But just for individual bans. Also, nothing would be stopping Streaming Admins here from copying and pasting the MBi on sites and forums for non-streaming server admins, but they'll never be up to date competely. Why have a copy of the MBi if it isn't even up to date, which would be 99.9% of the time? Why should the public get a free copy of the MBi while PBBans hosts this free service for everyone and the Streaming Admins are allowing their servers to add to the MBi? Just make it so that Streaming Admins are allowed to get a copy of it the MBi as a temporary resort if or when the PBHub goes down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lluuu Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 From what I can gather you propose there should be no downloadable banlists for the general public as you posted here already: http://www.pbbans.com/forums/do-you-use-our-downloadable-banlists-t147550.html which was a poll started shortly after this occurred: http://www.pbbans.com/forums/clearing-the-air-t147568.html People can always look up individual GUIDs if they go to our front page, there's a small box right below the menu which they can use to check if a GUID is banned or not. That has nothing to do with banlists being downloadable or not. Just as an example - the GUID tracker uses our downloadable banlists. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knives* Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) People can always look up individual GUIDs if they go to our front page, there's a small box right below the menu which they can use to check if a GUID is banned or not. That has nothing to do with banlists being downloadable or not. I know that has nothing to do with banlists being downloadable or not. You don't seem to understand that I am talking about the MBi here which the public can download presently, just as the topic implies. I'm not talking about individual GUID checks. Think of anti-virus software. There are free ones where it has a virus-check feature and there are paid versions with extra features. The paid one is what keeps the company in business. The free version, in this case, should be considered GUID checks. The MBi is like giving the full paid version out to everyone for free without any contribution on the user's end (not money in this case, but a streaming server). The GUID tracker should always be available to the public, just as I said. But the whole MBi list? No. The long-term goal of restricting access to non-Streaming Admins is about getting people to use their incentive to become one and stream. That alone is what helps out everyone here as more cheaters will get banned. Plus, the more Streaming Admins there are, the more likely people are to donate, I believe. Providing an MBi without streaming is a quick-fix and nice gesture, but it doesn't really help out anyone over the long-run. Everyone should become proactive and involved, not reactive and uninvolved. Edited January 6, 2012 by Knives* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuntMasta Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I disagree with you. I can very easily write about 20 lines of python to auto update the banlist from this service and push it to my server. Hell i could even spend a few more hours and write a plugin for bf3 to make it a more robust platform if i wanted. That being said even having all that capability to do those things i would rather join the community and be able to pass back information to the collective. That is why im trying to jump all the hurdles put in place in the form of requirements to get to that point. I also have to say that having the list of banns with reason is a handy thing for other admins who are wanting to provide a better playing experience for their friends/clans/communities/random pubers. So i am personally happy that the list is easily downloadable, it gives more flexibility for folks who may not have the time/desire to jump all the hurdles require by the stricter then most other anticheat sites requirements (which are evidently rather warranted). Plus the av side of things is not a good comparison IMHO, most av's provide all the same signatures just added features (website reputation, email scanning, etc) which is eerily similar to how this community is setup. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPooper Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) The GUID tracker should always be available to the public, just as I said. But the whole MBi list? No. She meant my program, not the database search on PBBans. Edited January 7, 2012 by PartyPooper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knives* Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) ChuntMasta, Seeing as you're just a Normal User and not a Streaming Admin such as myself and the other 2,500+ Streaming Admins here, your thoughts and opinions on this matter have very little to no relevancy. You're on the other side of the fence and are not contributing to the entire streaming community by helping the MBi get any larger since you do not stream any servers. You may do coding any can snag the MBi list from this site if it was private, which would be unfortunate, but not everyone would know how. The idea of making the MBi data inaccessible to the public (people like you) would not be intended to allow cheaters to use their cheats on more servers. It would be incentive to get people like you to contribute to the MBi by streaming a server like the rest of us do, and therefore you would and should be allowed the privilege of attaining the MBi (if required) that exists thanks to the combination of EvenBalance + PBBans + Streaming Admins. Without the combination of those three, you would never have an MBi to snag and use at your liesure in the first place. That is what makes you and other people like you a freeloader that (IMO) do not deserve access to such a thing. It isn't personal, it's about contributing and helping out the entire Battlefield 3 community that streams as a whole and not just your community. Surely you can understand that. Having the list of bans may be handy, convenient and absolutely wonderful for you and people like you. I as well would love to have a free lunch without having to give anything in return. However, I am not here to do that. I am here to stream a server, help expand the MBi for Battlefield 3 players and to keep cheaters out of my servers and other Battlefield 3 servers that stream to the PBHub. How are you and people like you helping out the Streaming Admins here or PBBans for that matter? You're not, unless you make a donation to them. How are you and people like you helping out PBBans gain a better reputation for itself if all you do is use the MBi without advertising this site on your server? You're not, unless you advertise PBBans in your server, which I doubt most freeloaders do. You may be helping out your friends/clan/personal community and random pubbers, but ultimately you're not helping out the Battlefield 3 community that streams as a whole, which is roughly 21% of all the servers out there. I'm sure you're very happy and fulfilled getting something without going through the same steps I did just so you can have a bunch of cheaters banned from your server. Flexibility is presently granted at the expense of more cheaters roaming free and being undetected on servers that don't stream while the newly discovered cheaters thanks to EvenBalance + PBBans + Streaming Admins are helping to have them proactively banned on the MBi. Maybe a compromise can be made. Those that don't stream a server should pay a small monthly fee to PBBans to have access to the MBi. It's the least they can do if they choose not to contribute by streaming a server. If that is too much, then they should do what the rest of us have done and take 15 minutes to sign up as a Streaming Admin. Could a moderator please move this thread to a forum where Normal Users do not have access? Thank you. Edited January 7, 2012 by Knives* 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfy Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 The topic will not be moved as it was posted in this section for a reason. ChuntMasta has actually applied for streaming. So his intention is there, even though he just needs to fine tune some things with his application ;) SGA's already get tools that non-streaming users don't have access to. While I agree with you on certain points, all users are potentional streamers in future and are entitled to an opinion. The downloadable banlist is merely a snippet of what PBBans has to offer and some users may start by just downloading them to being in a position where they want to be part of the community themselves by streaming their own servers and start contributing to the anti cheat cause. In a ideal world anyone with a server would stream, thats an ideal world though and not always the real world. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinuccio74 Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 ChuntMasta, Seeing as you're just a Normal User and not a Streaming Admin such as myself and the other 2,500+ Streaming Admins here, your thoughts and opinions on this matter have very little to no relevancy. You're on the other side of the fence and are not contributing to the entire streaming community by helping the MBi get any larger since you do not stream any servers. You may do coding any can snag the MBi list from this site if it was private, which would be unfortunate, but not everyone would know how. The idea of making the MBi data inaccessible to the public (people like you) would not be intended to allow cheaters to use their cheats on more servers. It would be incentive to get people like you to contribute to the MBi by streaming a server like the rest of us do, and therefore you would and should be allowed the privilege of attaining the MBi (if required) that exists thanks to the combination of EvenBalance + PBBans + Streaming Admins. Without the combination of those three, you would never have an MBi to snag and use at your liesure in the first place. That is what makes you and other people like you a freeloader that (IMO) do not deserve access to such a thing. It isn't personal, it's about contributing and helping out the entire Battlefield 3 community that streams as a whole and not just your community. Surely you can understand that. Having the list of bans may be handy, convenient and absolutely wonderful for you and people like you. I as well would love to have a free lunch without having to give anything in return. However, I am not here to do that. I am here to stream a server, help expand the MBi for Battlefield 3 players and to keep cheaters out of my servers and other Battlefield 3 servers that stream to the PBHub. How are you and people like you helping out the Streaming Admins here or PBBans for that matter? You're not, unless you make a donation to them. How are you and people like you helping out PBBans gain a better reputation for itself if all you do is use the MBi without advertising this site on your server? You're not, unless you advertise PBBans in your server, which I doubt most freeloaders do. You may be helping out your friends/clan/personal community and random pubbers, but ultimately you're not helping out the Battlefield 3 community that streams as a whole, which is roughly 21% of all the servers out there. I'm sure you're very happy and fulfilled getting something without going through the same steps I did just so you can have a bunch of cheaters banned from your server. Flexibility is presently granted at the expense of more cheaters roaming free and being undetected on servers that don't stream while the newly discovered cheaters thanks to EvenBalance + PBBans + Streaming Admins are helping to have them proactively banned on the MBi. Maybe a compromise can be made. Those that don't stream a server should pay a small monthly fee to PBBans to have access to the MBi. It's the least they can do if they choose not to contribute by streaming a server. If that is too much, then they should do what the rest of us have done and take 15 minutes to sign up as a Streaming Admin. Could a moderator please move this thread to a forum where Normal Users do not have access? Thank you. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOC_JO Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Well this is old new but I read this whole thing so may as well drop 2cents in bucket. It seems given the actions of most streaming admins and pole (link above) that if you are streaming you dont even bother with DL MBI like old days so why even have it? The flip side to the arguement is when I have been on other servers that are running a competing stream (not pbbans) and watch regular players who have DL MBI (non pbbans streaming admin) tell ingame admin that so an so has been caught by pbbans and is a hacker. This is nice to see and encourages server owner to add pbbans to their stream. If a regular player wants to take the trouble to DL MBI and search names manually it only helps the cause not hurt it. Stoping cheating is a community effort not a priviledged effort...peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DazzieBoi Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 and well if cheaters want to enforce our bans on their servers too then they're more than welcome to. now that would be funny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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