GAME HACK #81518

[Mayjay]

Well first of all I didn't cheat so thank you very much, and I don't cheat either in other multiplayer or singleplayer games.

Edit : feel free to verify http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/soldier/Maywiki/stats/295415530/pc/.

 

That you don't understand why people want or enjoy cheating in their singleplayer games doesn't matter, they're free to do whatever they want as long as it doesn't interfere or disturb other player's enjoyment.

 

 

doesn't matter of i can be used in the particular game it was running and has been tested and confirmed to cause a ban.

 

So did AutoHotKey, yet the global ban issued by PBBans was lifted almost two weeks before EvenBalance made an announcement about it. 

And a macro program could allow you to auto spot which is considered as a cheat. But since many players have those macro progams and use them for many things it was just and fair to give them the benefit of the doubt and let PB kick them without adding a global ban in top of that.

 

Again, that you understand or not why people use CE, that you find it morally right or wrong is not the point. Your "mission" is to promote clean and safe multiplayer environment in the games protected by PB, not being a judge of morality about what players do on their machines in the privacy of their homes.

Edited December 13, 2013 by Mayjay

[pipes1]

fact still remains a cheat was found and banned, end of story

[Mayjay]

Alleged cheat please. CE has many other uses but cheating in BF4 multiplayer doesn't seem like one, unless you can prove it of course. 

[pipes1]

its not on us to prove its not its on the ones who used it and thus got banned, one a cheater always a cheat, even in single player games

[SOC_JO]

Come on Mayjay all cheats are created with legit tech tools. Using these multipurpose tools with selfish bad intentions is nothing new. If you think your "alleged" cheat argument is valid then it sounds like some rookie decides to code his own cheat program, joins a server and finds out 2 or 3 mins into game it doesn't work. Then he gets banned by EB for gamehack, gets his panties in a wad files an appeal stating he never cheated in bf4! It never worked so how can you say I cheated.

 

As it stands now, if it walks and talks like a duck.....doesn't matter you better be able to prove that is really a dog in the park or in the very least a dog and duck walk and talk the same. Unless something new pops up its a pretty dead issue

[freaky10]

Mayjay, there is one fact you are either not aware off, or chose to ignore.

 

this ban list is voluntary, if you can join other servers that do not stream, then do so.

 

all of us here PAY, yes thats right PAY, for our servers so we can play games the way we want to, with people we want to.

it is our choice who plays, and if we have decided that someone running ce isnt allowed to play on OUR servers, then they dont play.

I for one ban players from bf4 who have been banned in bf3 and moh:wf, and if a ban shows from an earlier game, i ban them as well.

 

once a cheater, always a cheater.

 

why should i let someone play if i dont trust them?

[voice14]

its not on us to prove its not its on the ones who used it and thus got banned, one a cheater always a cheat, even in single player games

lol are serious ?? i do cheat in single player games, like the one i got banned for "Godus" aded few crystals to speed up the game but, played css, all of bfs wow, swg, eq and eq2 and whole bunch of othere online games and it never cheated in them.

[Mayjay]

its not on us to prove its not its on the ones who used it and thus got banned, one a cheater always a cheat, even in single player games

 

I can find at least one occasion where PBBans staff investigated about a false positive : http://www.pbbans.com/forums/viol-50074-bans-removed-cod2-t145852.html. And people investigated this violation and found out you can be ban just by having the progam on. And again on several occasions bans were lifted by Pbbans before any reaction from EB.

 

Come on Mayjay all cheats are created with legit tech tools. Using these multipurpose tools with selfish bad intentions is nothing new. If you think your "alleged" cheat argument is valid then it sounds like some rookie decides to code his own cheat program, joins a server and finds out 2 or 3 mins into game it doesn't work. Then he gets banned by EB for gamehack, gets his panties in a wad files an appeal stating he never cheated in bf4! It never worked so how can you say I cheated.

 

As it stands now, if it walks and talks like a duck.....doesn't matter you better be able to prove that is really a dog in the park or in the very least a dog and duck walk and talk the same. Unless something new pops up its a pretty dead issue

 

You can't ban 500 people because 10 or 50 will abuse, that's not how justice works and apparently not how pbbans works (http://www.pbbans.com/forums/viol-89246-89296-and-89229-bans-removed-bf3-t156615.html). Macro programs can be used to cheat or gain an advantage but many use them for other reasons. The right call was to transform the ban into a kick. And I don't see why it could not be the same case here. The ones that will use CE in the intend of cheating (even if no proof of such case exists yet) will still be kicked and unable to connect. The innocents will know they have to get rid of it. Those cases are pretty similar.

 

Mayjay, there is one fact you are either not aware off, or chose to ignore.

 

this ban list is voluntary, if you can join other servers that do not stream, then do so.

 

all of us here PAY, yes thats right PAY, for our servers so we can play games the way we want to, with people we want to.

it is our choice who plays, and if we have decided that someone running ce isnt allowed to play on OUR servers, then they dont play.

I for one ban players from bf4 who have been banned in bf3 and moh:wf, and if a ban shows from an earlier game, i ban them as well.

 

once a cheater, always a cheater.

 

why should i let someone play if i dont trust them?

 

You're totally in you right to do so, but other streamers should have the occasion to choose if they want to prevent the access on their servers for that reason or not. Like in this case : http://www.pbbans.com/forums/viol-89246-89296-and-89229-bans-removed-bf3-t156615.html.

That you want to force the choice on everybody is not right.

And once a cheater, always a cheater doesn't apply here since you can use CE for many things but cheating like you can use macros for many things but cheating.

 

But of course I still respect your opinion even if I disagree. You're in your right when you choose who you allow to play on your server. Heck you could even prevent me to join your server because I have a different opinion and I would find nothing to say about it.

[pipes1]

mayjay. the bans you referenced are if you look on the list at EB for removal from there system, pbbans staff also removed them after EB declared a false positive.

same will happen with this ban IF EB declares a false positive. it has been said by the staff many time.

 

untill EB declares a false psoitive the violation will remain in the system.

 

if you feel that EB is wrong then work with them.

[Benway]

we will not waste a second of time to "investigate" a false positive due to CE, we are not silly you know, neither will we discuss evenbalances policies (file a trouble ticket yourself to find programs disallowed by punkbuster) here - it simply does not make any sense. if you wish to continue to avoid doing your homework (as i will not continue to repeat myself: read the whole topic for a start) and sequentially catch a cheat violation: that is your choice.

 

gamehack violations are raised when pb picks a pattern in system memory that belongs to a cheat. Mind to explain where 'User's intention' is stored in system memory? This concept is entirely based on wishful thinking, it makes no sense at all.

 

if you have to use cheats for anything different but a punkbuster enabled game you are still liable for it. Means, if you do not bother to clear your system's memory entirely - e.g. by a cold reboot - and still have the cheat left in sys memory when you join a pb server: your fault, your ban.

[Mayjay]

mayjay. the bans you referenced are if you look on the list at EB for removal from there system, pbbans staff also removed them after EB declared a false positive.

same will happen with this ban IF EB declares a false positive. it has been said by the staff many time.

 

untill EB declares a false psoitive the violation will remain in the system.

 

if you feel that EB is wrong then work with them.

 

Either I'm crazy or there's a bug in the time stamps but the violation was took out by PBB on the 12 feb, an update was made the 24th quoting EB's removal and EB's page state the removal on the 21 march. So to me, unless you can correct me on this, PBB can choose when they want if they wish to remove a violation from the global ban list.

 

we will not waste a second of time to "investigate" a false positive due to CE, we are not silly you know, neither will we discuss evenbalances policies (file a trouble ticket yourself to find programs disallowed by punkbuster) here - it simply does not make any sense. if you wish to continue to avoid doing your homework (as i will not continue to repeat myself: read the whole topic for a start) and sequentially catch a cheat violation: that is your choice.

 

I'm not discussing EB's policies, I'm discussing yours. You seem to have a double standard regarding this subject. You know EB will never tell anybody about anything, that's why you choose to revoke the violation 89246 without prior any statement from EB. You want proof but you don't accept them when they come from people who were caught, so yes unless you investigate this I don't see how a proof can be presented.

 

What cause the difference in treatment ? The type of program incriminated ? For you macro programs deserve the benefit of the doubt but not CE? To me that's hypocritical. Macros can be used to gain advantage in multiplayer. There's no indication about CE being used in the multiplayer. What's the crime of CE, allowing people to cheat on their single player games ? That's a reason to global ban players ?

[Benway]

We already know you are quick in not reading nothing. False. False. False and false. Read the whole topic.

 

There's no indication about CE being used in the multiplayer.

you provided enough proof you have no clue.

[Mayjay]

What proof ? Go for it, I'm honestly interested. If you can prove CE was used in the multiplayer of BF4 I will shut up about it and admit I was wrong.

 

And which statement of mine was incorrect ? There's no discussion possible if you just say "False". What part is false ? That AutoHotKey could be used to cheat ?

[Benway]

you are so predictable.

 

12/04/2013 18:12:42 - "Alex J"

Note #4: I'm sorry, but the prior explanation answered your question and we have nothing further to say on the subject.

no, pb never made a difference for what purpose disallowed programs were used (just what is disallowed - globally)

yes, this is a policy set by evenbalance, not us.

yes, ce is used in mp gamehacks. old news. (on that Note: How about No? Just according to our policies you seem to know better than us)

no, macros never caused violations but restriction kicks.

===> you considerations are irrelevant. we do not care.

 

gamehack violations are raised when pb picks a pattern in system memory that belongs to a cheat. Mind to explain where 'User's intention' is stored in system memory? This concept is entirely based on wishful thinking, it makes no sense at all.

 

I didn't know that it wasn't allowed to cheat on any game while running one that is protected by PB.

THAT is your real problem. You do not read. You do not listen, hardly surprising you do not know anything.

[drigis]

you are so predictable.

 

 

no, pb never made a difference for what purpose disallowed programs were used (just what is disallowed - globally)

yes, this is a policy set by evenbalance, not us.

yes, ce is used in mp gamehacks. old news. (on that Note: How about No? Just according to our policies you seem to know better than us)

no, macros never caused violations but restrictions.

===> you considerations are irrelevant. we do not care.

So just to make sure...your are and have admitted that having cheat engine present in the memory logs of a computer can result and is most likely the cause of #81518...regardless if it isn't used in bf4 or in any disallowed way. Instead of trying to debate this as you in general seem to as you say "not care" about legitate players of bf4 I'd simply like to know how you view this as even slightly justified or fair?

 

Its fine and expected to tell people to not use cheat-engine for a multiplayer game under your service but how did you people come to the decision that it isn't allowed ANYWHERE? Even if completely unused in bf4 and utterly harmless.

 

Now I don't want to have to compare this to real life as of course its a game but this issue seems to fit rather well. Your banning of players who simply posses a program and use OUTSIDE bf4 and in a responsibly way would be equivalent to arresting somebody for owning a legal firearm, who only ever used it correctly, simply because the gun "could" be used to kill.

 

So please, please tell me how you can honestly defend this and believe it justified?"

[Benway]

it does not matter.

 

if you use cheats, you do it at own risk. You never run disallowed programs whatsoever and join a punkbuster enabled server without a system reboot.

 

if you use punkbuster you follow their policies, it is really that simple.

[drigis]

Fair enough, not really but if that's your reason then ok. One last request then if you could find and quote the exact line in punkbuster's policies stating software such as cheat-engine isn't allowed to simply be on the computer even if not used to cheat or even ran except in games and services that explicitly allow it?

[Benway]

file a trouble ticket and ask.

preferably you do this before receiving a violation and subsequent ban - you had it loaded in your system memory while you where ingame, not just lying around  somewhere on your hardisk.

[pipes1]

i dont see this going any where productive and feel its time to close this subject. at this point PB is clear all the recipient of the gamehack 81518 are and will remained banned.

 

once EB declares a false positive (they might we dont know) this will be removed from the pbbans MBi.

 

 

CE may be the root cause of this or it may be other things again we dont know and PB wont say.

 

 

the final thing that can be done is to keep working with PB to resolve this isuse, ranting here at pbbans will only get you banned from the forums as well.

[Benway]

dang, now i can dump my new avatar

[Benway]

As i do here as i please, my apologies repeating the same old basics and trivialities (for me) in reply to the same misconceptions over and over again is the opposite of what pleases me :P Like any staff member here the only benefit i took from this service / project was to stream a few servers (in my case years back) and PBBans technologies were that advanced, that we were able to convict cheaters unquestionably, even those who came with private hacks pb never got to know ... so i felt this project was well worth to contribute some greater effort. So much for history, as well i'm entirely unwilling to vent any cheat related information here, even less in public forum sections; so please note i will only be as clear as required and stay as diffuse and generalizing as possible in the following post - if you find i was wrong in certain aspects, we assume this is on purpose ;> or just tell your Barber.

As predictably this Non-issue continues in restricted users forum areas now, some final summary for your information:

First of all, punkbuster cheat violation Gamehack 81518 :
1.) is raised by evenbalance's software punkbuster (not us);
2.) Gamehack Violations in general are triggered by:
a.) a certain pattern in system memory that belongs to a cheat or
b.) manipulation methods, that will change certain game related areas of system memory. Practically this is just another 'pattern'

if a described signature pattern is found, pb will raise a gamehack violation.

conclusions:
I.) Given 2.) & 1.), only Evenbalance knows what pattern in particular. There is just circumstantial evidence CE might be involved here -
if we accept this assumption, then
II.) As 2.) by itself already shows, there is a BF4 multiplayer cheat that creates a pattern related to CE code/methods - and it is well known (at least if you used to do cheat research for 8 years like me) that CE resp. parts of its code was/is used in various multiplayer cheats. These just never became very popular, as it is well known (in cheat coder circles) that CE methods and/or code are quite easy to detect for pb.
CE related methods commonly have been used for no-recoil, no-spread, and sniper-breath -hacks in several multiplayer games and throughout the whole BF series enemy-nametags could be "unlocked" by just changing a single bit of code, this was done by classic injected cheats as well by patching this bit of code into a certain game runtime-library or even by hexedit - the objective was little more than to find this bit (among 50 million others); obviously cheat developers always tried to manipulate this single bit 'live' 'online' (or however you might call it) while loaded into system memory, without leaving any traces. The use of CE methods always played  more or less a role in this plot.
III.) from II.) it is obvious to me, hack e.g. into nametags will always create a different signature (pattern) than e.g. to hack into recoil, so it is self evident pb picks the loaded CE code itself rather than the 'manipulated game related areas of system memory' for this particular hack-target. This is the only way to detect them all and regardless of game patches. This is a common practice of pb - where this is useful and recommendable. I will not continue at this point, as i will never give any hint to our friends from payhacksites watching this *waves*

Punkbuster always detected cheats loaded into system memory.
Here a certain game related memory area  manipulated by a cheat resp. (III.) the signature of the originating hack or put simple: a certain pattern in system memory.
PB never detected (it can't to put it straight): a.) By What or Whom b.) How (using what methods or tools) c.) When, or even: d.) for What Purpose
... the manipulation was made / the detected pattern was created - flagged as cheat violation.

You can use CE back and forth as you wish. If you join a punkbuster enabled server with traces of its use (unloading only may be sufficient to avoid a cheat violation, but a cold system restart is highly recommended) - that is your fault. Exclusively. Nobody cares for what purpose you used a cheat - that's what it is bottomline, it really makes no difference, from the technical PoV how PB works and what PB detects there effectively is no difference at all.
If you file a TroubleTicket at EvenBalance and ask a clear-cut question (not the blowing hot and cold you can read in this topic), you might get the answer: "we are sorry, but the use of cheatengine is not / will not be allowed by punkbuster" - is, always was, and always will be. If you want to continue to use CE - that is possible, just unload and reboot and you are safe. The use while ingame is not possible at all; if you could use it scot-free so far, you just were lucky until luck ran out.

Just the concept  misconception: PunkBuster (software) / EvenBalance inc. / PBBans / Anybody / would, should or even could discern the purpose, intention etc. of the use of CE, is nothing but wishful thinking for the reasons i gave - how punkbuster works.
To make this feasible you had to answer the question, where 'User's intention' is stored in system memory. You see, this is plain nonsense.

So bottomline: With a bannable gamehack violation (possiblly? CE related, might be, or not) your word will stand against a valid PunkBuster Cheat Violation backed by streamed Evidence.
We might believe you or not - just that does not matter at all. Our bans are not based on beliefs just evidence and clear policies; read: http://www.pbbans.com/aboutus.php. Our bans always were based on streamed cheat violations (see spoiler below as well), banning for violations like Gamehack 81518 is exactly what we are here for. The use of our services is chosen by server administrators http://www.pbbans.com/tos.php, and the use of our Banlists is entirely optional.

For all affected, for a remedy you might refer to the last line of my signature.
We hear you saying EvenBalance did not ban you (yet, i may add); the last paragraph provides all information why your wish to even consider CE as non-cheat application false positive (that based on nothing but assumptions) is entirely arbitrary and in result is nothing less than asking us to close down our services (: We are sorry, but No.

 

Any cheat related violation that is raised directly by PunkBuster™ software, as per this list;

#50000s - Aimbot
#60000s - Wallhack
#70000s - Multihack
#80000s - Gamehack
#90000s - 'Cheat' Video Drivers
#100000s - Speedhack
#110000s - Autofire
#120000s - Game Hook
#130000s - Attempted PunkBuster Hack
is added automatically to the PBBans MBI.
It should be remembered that Even Balance normally apply a 2 minute kick for the above violations and its the proactive admin or 3rd party anti cheat service that apply the actual ban.
Even Balance always have the last word when a cheat violation is raised directly by their own software, but as the actual ban is issued by PBBans.com its best practice to include us in the appeal procedure.
The player can do this by clicking the "appeal this ban" tab on the ban link and following the simple instructions provided.
This will include raising a troubleticket directly with Even Balance and that should include as much information as possible as to why the player thinks this is a "false positive".
It's always a good idea to list all processes that were running at the time the violation was raised (antivirus / chat programmes etc )
The key word with any troubleticket query is patience, Even Balance get a hell of a lot of queries and response time is dependent on how busy they are.
Normal response time is 48 - 72 hours.

If Even Balance staff say that the cheat violation was raised in error, the issued ban will be removed from our systems immediately.
If Even Balance staff say the cheat violation was not raised in error, the issued ban will remain on our systems.
It really is that simple.

 

To hang on to a forlorn concept is a sign of immaturity i may add.

[HSMagnet]

i miss the badge...

 

[v6GhostRider]

Hi, my name is Damian Marciniak. I have account on Origin for about 3-4 years and I have a lot games on Origin. I have never used any cheat codes or programs to improve my results in games. Only people who have access to computer are me and my wife. We have a separates accounts. My Wife installed Cheat Engine on her account, which she used to play on Facebook: Candy Crash Saga. This program was not even plugged into Bf4.exe nor any of the other games, so that could have not effected the game, and even more, my stats and achievements in the game. Information that this program has such an effect on the game couldn't be found anywhere, although this is a very common program. I believe that I have been banned by mistake, because personally I never used this program. I do not want to loose my account on Origin, due to the mistake of the program. I have a lot of games (35) and many friends on it, and I consider opening a new account pointless. I collect the games for over 3 years and I wouldn't risked losing it because it is very important to me.

[Buff]

I have never used any cheat codes or programs to improve my results in games.

 

Are you sure?

Why would you have a profile on a Polish cheat site since May 2013?

 

Also was the other cheat site not interesting enough?

[Subman_9]

Buff,

Good job, lol However, do you really think that anti-cheat community should provide a full URLs to some cheat sites ?