Call of Duty: Black Ops

[MaydaX]

I also believe that this is in violation of the Federal Trade Commission Act but that is only civil whereas the Sherman Antitrust Act would make it a criminal complaint and force the Government's involvement.

 

Nothing happened to EA over BC2 now MoH so doubt anything will happen to CoDBO. Ironic the trusted providers of EA are now left in the cold for CoDBO.

 

Bottom line is trusted providers are only used to protect stats and control DLC. Nothing to do with security. Hell BC2 server files got leaked with debug info which greatly helped hackers reverse engineer the game. CoDBO files will be leaked eventually.

[hellreturn]

Screw CoDBO. I will happily play W:ET forever!

[Piggy]

I believe this was in order...

 

[Aura6S]

Lol ... but it aint funny :(

 

So what's a COD5 freak gonna play now then? I'm open to suggestions!

Edited September 3, 2010 by Aura6S

[Live]

Nothing happened to EA over BC2 now MoH so doubt anything will happen to CoDBO. Ironic the trusted providers of EA are now left in the cold for CoDBO.

 

Bottom line is trusted providers are only used to protect stats and control DLC. Nothing to do with security. Hell BC2 server files got leaked with debug info which greatly helped hackers reverse engineer the game. CoDBO files will be leaked eventually.

 

 

There is a drastic difference there though MaydaX. There are quite a few providers for both BC2 and the upcoming MOH. This at least offers some choice and creates competition which is exactly what a monopoly destroys.

 

Either way, now that GS has hit their gold mine with Activision, I'd like to see EA kick them to the curb and let the rest of the industry pick it up at the least and form our niche.

 

I've spoken with a couple providers that are very serious about the monopoly or antitrust factors that have displayed. We have several meetings and interactions with attorneys and one former Chairman of the FTC tomorrow. I was pleasantly surprised by the eagerness of some of my fellow competitors to band together and form this consortium of sorts. Only time will tell if we're dreaming by taking on multi-million dollar companies in a court case.

Edited September 3, 2010 by Live

[fozzer]

My thoughts.

 

It comes as no surprise to me that after all the hype and the "listening to the community" blurb, Activison / Treyarch have effectively ignored the potential customer feedback re COD:BO and just done their own thing.

I suppose Treyarch can argue that they have provided dedicated servers, but "its life Jim, but not as we know it" ;)

 

The one and only thing that concerns gaming companies like Activision, EA etc is profit margins.

They are, when all is said and done a business, and like every other business, they will always be looking to reduce costs and at the same time increase profit margins.

A simplified example;

A games company can easily produce 2 or 3 console games per year and make 4 - 6 million from the sales of those games.

At the same time, they can port 1 game from console to pc and make 1 million from those sales.

It does not take a lot of working out to see which way those companies are going to go to maximise profit margins whilst at the same time reducing cost :scratchchin:

Console gaming is were the big bucks are made, its that simple.

 

A console gamer buys a game, gets bored, buys another, expects nothing more from the game company.

A pc gamer, buys a game, maybe rents a server, installs mods when the original game gets boring (also increasing game longevity) , expects support in the shape of patches etc, all this increases the outlay that games companies set aside for support, hence we see pc games that are years old still going strong, and still drawing on the resources of the game company / developer.

There is probably a lot more, but you get the idea :)

The pc gamer is now living on console scraps and not the other way around.

Kotick has already declared an interest in partnering up with a company to develop a "pc" that you can plug straight into your TV set and get online with it click me to read the story and if you believe that all he wants to do is provide value to customers, I'll send the men in white coats around to your house its all about controlling content/gaming environment and making the customer pay through the nose for it.

 

Stopping piracy is not an excuse that I buy into.

No matter what the games companies do, there will always be some "genius" that finds a way around it.

Modded / chipped X boxes, the usb PS3 key (Sony shut the originators down, but I hear on the grapevine it will be released soon from locations were Sony will not be able to do much about it) and of course, we are all well versed in whats available for the pc :P

 

VAC v PB

VAC uses the delayed ban method, but is totally intergrated with the steam network, so its very handy for selling some map packs / weapon upgrades etc.

If your caught cheating by VAC, you get a total ban, and to game again you will have to buy a new game and create a new steam id.

 

PB as a stand alone product, if your caught cheating, you get a 2 minute kick(default setting) :blink: but they also have third party anti cheat sites like PBBans, that provide cheat related MD5 scans / cheat related cvar scans / scans for detecting cheat related binds and cheat files, this in turn makes PB a very effective tool for server admins in the fight against online cheating.

PB need to get the pbss issues sorted / intergrate a secure streaming method / or go the VAC route, to remain competitive as an anti cheat solution, of course they do not have a vast steam network to fall back on, so game companies who want to screw the customer out of every red cent they can, will always choose VAC as the easy option.

 

Do game companies care about online cheating ?

I very much doubt it, there would be 2 reasons to use VAC as an anti cheat solution ... its cheaper than PB, and, it has that vast steam network to control content etc.

PB have done a lot better protecting BFBC2 than any other game thats PB enabled.

They are detecting a lot more of the private/paid for cheats and issuing a globalguid ban to accompany the detection (instead of leaving the actual banning to the likes of us)

The questions that should be asked, is why they have not provided this type of support for all PB enabled games in the past/present, and whats the reason they have started the globalguid policy now.

 

Trusted providers (please note the use of the plural)is a useless exercise, server files get leaked and protection of stats/dlc is their only use (and thats a half arsed job)

Do they provide security ? ............. not that I have seen <_>

 

A single trusted provider is a new slant on things, I would dearly love to see the corporate hospitality bill of gameservers.com that helped swing things their way :P or maybe Treyarch see this as a way for them to control any dlc that they will surely introduce at a later date.

Whichever way you look at it, a single provider of servers is a monopoly, and that was outlawed ages ago.

 

I'll stop there before I really get warmed up :P just a few of my personal thoughts for you to mull over.

It will be interesting to see if EA actually learn anything from the COD:BO fiasco, because they surely did not learm much from the MW2 fiasco that preceded it.

[Kite]

Max player counts have not been finalized for ranked or unranked servers. This happens late in the project by design. #codblackops #pc

 

 

If the player count is raised to maybe at least around 40-ish or more max, I may consider buying.

 

(Hey, I actually ENJOY 50-player TDM chaos XD)

 

[=GoMg=THE__DRIFTER]

Fozzer that was an excellent post. I sincerely doubt that I will drop any cash for this game since I just don't see it becoming something our community can stand behind. In past days, months, and years I would have posted some irate and angry post about my disappointment but since the past few games have been released I just don't seem to care. I spend most of my time either playing some ancient game like Battlefield Vietnam or occasionally AA 2.8.5. I can even be found playing a few Steam related games like Train Sims and Left For Dead 2. In all cases it is coop as then I don't feel cheated after dying at the hands a "bot" in one fashion or another. I used to live to play AA back in the day. I have become so disenchanted with the whole gaming situation, attitudes of the game makers, and 10 year old players that it really is more irritating than anything; I play to relax and not get pissed off in the first 10 seconds of playing. I can't seem to find that anymore in the new games and since BO appears to be following the lead of MW2 it seems as though there is little hope for the future.

[Kite]

Post-MP event PC FAQ posted by JD_2020 and pcdev on the CoD:BO Forums.

 

http://callofduty.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=270441&sid=0lu3rtauutb89t1ckv61n4v193

 

After Call of Duty: World at War, we set out 3 goals for our next PC title:

 

[*]1] PC gets every single game feature that the consoles get, but in a way that makes sense for PC.[*]2] PC gets even more features

[Piggy]

I'm sorry but I wont be forking out full money for this, I might buy a key cheaper but this game has just lost my interest entirely.

[Everson]

Let's see if he has the commitment to reply:

 

http://callofduty.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=270494

 

http://callofduty.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=270441

VAC: Confirmed

We are serious about protecting the integrity of this game from hackers and cheaters who would otherwise ruin the fun for the honest players. Used in conjunction with our own anti-exploit measures, Theater reviews, trusted servers, and supplemented by server admins with kick and ban powers we believe that Valve Anti-Cheat will be an effective solution for Call of Duty: Black Ops PC. We are committed to working closely and diligently with Valve to deal with new threats as they appear.

 

Okay, so we're all a bit sceptical at the moment over this VAC choice and based on the performance of other games rightly so. VAC has it's advantages but also has it's disadvantages, so does PunkBuster but it is the 'known' for Call of Duty Anti-Cheat. Hopefully this thread won't turn into a descending war over those.

 

One question, and I think you owe the PC Community an honest and upfront answer. You've made a fairly bold statement/promise and we want to know that Treyarch is prepared to do what is necessary if the time comes:

 

If Treyarch is really serious about protecting the integrity of this game from hackers and cheaters, and VAC does not work out - will Treyarch ditch VAC and change to PunkBuster?

[xX_Renegade_Xx]

A console gamer buys a game, gets bored, buys another, expects nothing more from the game company.

A pc gamer, buys a game, maybe rents a server, installs mods when the original game gets boring (also increasing game longevity) , expects support in the shape of patches etc, all this increases the outlay that games companies set aside for support, hence we see pc games that are years old still going strong, and still drawing on the resources of the game company / developer.

There is probably a lot more, but you get the idea :)

The pc gamer is now living on console scraps and not the other way around.

 

Great post Fozzer!

 

I think the days of dedi servers and mod tools are slowly disappearing, even now the smaller indie companies are reluctant to release a game with dedi server support and as you've mentioned that comes down to long-term cost.

 

The thing that confuses me is people appear blind to what is going on, games are released and within a very short period of time DLC is out and charged for, so the game you've just bought for

[HSMagnet]

Let's see if he has the commitment to reply:

 

http://callofduty.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=270494

 

 

 

there is money involved in the use of VAC, just as in GameServers and Steam

 

no way they are going to discuss breaching their contract with them

[Everson]

there is money involved in the use of VAC, just as in GameServers and Steam

 

no way they are going to discuss breaching their contract with them

As a PC gamer I'm not fussed about contracts. Simple question are they prepared to do the necessary if it comes to it, or not?

 

If they can't answer the question then I won't buy and I'm sure it's a question that many want an answer too.

 

I know the logistics of it, I simply don't care.

[HSMagnet]

As a PC gamer I'm not fussed about contracts. Simple question are they prepared to do the necessary if it comes to it, or not?

 

If they can't answer the question then I won't buy and I'm sure it's a question that many want an answer too.

 

I know the logistics of it, I simply don't care.

 

it is just a question you are never going to get an answer that you like, i'm afraid.

 

they are going to express all confidence in their partner and assure you every effort will be made on the anti-cheat front

[Everson]

it is just a question you are never going to get an answer that you like, i'm afraid.

 

they are going to express all confidence in their partner and assure you every effort will be made on the anti-cheat front

I'm not banking on an answer, in-fact I'm thinking of money on VAC being a complete let down for at least the first... say 2 years until the game dies?

 

:lol:

[Piggy]

Looks like your getting trolled more than receiving an answer.

[HSMagnet]

well MW2 was released a year ago......they have been releasing them every year for a while

 

i think they finally got the life expectancy of the game to a year

[Everson]

Looks like your getting trolled more than receiving an answer.

I like trolling :P

 

I'm a terrible troll...

[Piggy]

I like trolling :P

 

I'm a terrible troll...

 

I'm pretty good at trolling but cant me arsed the register.

[Everson]

I'm pretty good at trolling but cant me arsed the register.

Oh please do!

[SuperTaz]

I am still undecided whether to get the game or not. Yes, it has dedicated servers and no p2p. Yes, there will be rcons so admins can boot out the cheaters. With those two items alone, I may get it. I need more information though like PC specifications and if we will be able to have FTP access to both ranked and unranked. I guess it will depend on how I feel that day when it comes out.

[HSMagnet]

if it is anything like it was when WaW came out, the trolling is too easy over there to be fun

 

*edit*

 

and this makes up for everything :P

 

 

Leaderboards: Confirmed

Yes, leaderboards - globally persistent leaderboards (i.e. NOT per-server based).

Edited September 5, 2010 by HSMagnet

[injuneer]

if it is anything like it was when WaW came out, the trolling is too easy over there to be fun

 

*edit*

 

and this makes up for everything :P

 

 

 

 

 

Which means the stat padders and hackers will be running full force the day the game is released.

[fozzer]

VAC: Confirmed

We are serious about protecting the integrity of this game from hackers and cheaters who would otherwise ruin the fun for the honest players. Used in conjunction with our own anti-exploit measures, Theater reviews, trusted servers, and supplemented by server admins with kick and ban powers we believe that Valve Anti-Cheat will be an effective solution for Call of Duty: Black Ops PC. We are committed to working closely and diligently with Valve to deal with new threats as they appear.

 

Totally proves my point that most game devs know absolutely nothing about effective anti cheat solutions, the only surprise is that he was not recommending sv_pure 1 as an anti cheat solution :P